Arminians/non cals only respond here

This, seems to me, to be the inescapable conclusion, when the doctrine of election is seen through the eyes of Calvinistic theology. However, I will not "deny" the Sovereign God of the universe the right (implicitly or explicitly) the ability to gather "the elect" in any manner He so deems properly. I simply do not agree with this doctrine of election as I see it espoused and explained by the proponents of the reformed position. I do not see the totality of the revelation of scripture teaching the doctrine in this way.

 

Icon,
In your plan of salvation, this is what I disagree with most:

Repentance may have its place, and may be important. But put this way it is not Biblical.

"God needs you to repent of all known sin."
That is an impossibility for any man to do.
You can't even remember every sin you have committed, much less repent of them all!

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

You're still incorrect. And you seem angry and caustic again. It's sad that you don't truly know what you're talking about, and most calvinists are very evangelistic in their efforts, and Paul was motivated to preach the Gospel, even suffering for it, because he understood he did it for the elect, only. 2 Timothy 2:9-10.

Here's what I've stated about preaching in another thread (you can call me a calvinist)

:wavey:

 

Repentance doesn't mean knowing every known sin, nor does it mean turning from every known sin never to sin again.

That's where your misunderstanding lies: not having a proper definition or knowing Icons definition and intentions.

 

That's a poor debate tactic. There was nothing angry or caustic in his post.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with "Icon's definition."

If one doesn't know the Biblical definition of the word "repentance" then perhaps he shouldn't use it. It is impossible to repent from all your sins. That is what he said--"repent of all your sins."

 

Um, "It's a joke" (my beliefs) "impossible" "ridiculous."


That's too bad you didn't see it, because I certainly did. :wavey:

 

I'm saying I don't think you know the biblical definition, as you've described it repenting of every known sin, saying it is impossible. When you repented, what sin did you not repent of?

What does repent mean?

Thus, I say you don't understand what it means, nor Icons intent.

 

So what? What are you preaching?... that Jesus died for SOME people? You can't even know if Jesus died for YOU!

If you told people the whole truth, what you really believe, I know what would be the first question out of my mouth, I would ask how I can know Jesus died for me. Then I would ask how you found out Jesus died for YOU.

When you told me that you can't be certain that Jesus died for me (or you), I would walk away. How am I supposed to believe that? You do know that belief means CONFIDENCE don't you? How can I have confidence Jesus will save me if he may not have died for me and has no intention of saving me? You can't, it is IMPOSSIBLE.

You can come on here and act as bold as you wish, I know better. I can put myself in your shoes, and if I believed what you believe, I would have no confidence whatsoever, I would be in constant fear and doubt.

 

I did not repent of any sins.
Only believers need to repent of known sins in order to maintain fellowship or their walk with God (1John 1:9)

For the unbeliever repentance is always toward God not from sins.
Specifically repentance is a change of mind in respect to one's attitude to God. When I got saved my attitude toward God was changed. I once was a rebel against God. I repented. Christ became my Lord. I now am submissive to his will. That is what repentance is. It is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.

It is impossible to repent from all of your sins.
What were all your sins before you got saved?
Did you confess them all to the Lord, and then repent of each one of them?

 

Here's what I said:

...We simply preach Christ, His elect will respond, 2 Timothy 2:10, and none of His will be lost. There is no "darkness" in the message in which we preach. We simply preach the Gospel. We preach, and His are saved. There is no presentation of "if you're elect" but instead, and again, the Gospel is preached, and His respond unto salvation. Simple dependence upon Him. We know no other way brother.

Do you have a problem with the above? That's how I do it. Don't like it? Too bad. I stand before God, and no one else.

I always tell people the truth. I love when you hypothesize and pretend you know all of my beliefs. :love2:

I know Jesus died for me. My job isn't to go figure out whom He died for, but to preach to all people the Gospel as He commanded. Those who believe that message? They're His elect. And again, you're assuming you know all my beliefs. You don't.

I'm not acting. Actually, I'm more bold in person. You'd be scared? I see what is besetting you now to not believe and accept the DoG's you see in the Scriptures: fear to do so. Why be in constant fear and doubt? *If God drew you to Him, and you believed and got saved, guess what? That's right!!!! You're an elect one! Safe and secure. *I use the word "if" as in "since." :wavey:

Now, Joe Schmogul out there cursing God, no belief, hates the church, doesn't get saved. Well, he's not elect.

Now he should be scared, and I say that with concern, not with happiness.

- Peace

 

Believe what message?... that Jesus died for the elect? WHO ARE THE ELECT???

You freely admit you have no idea who the elect are, so how did you figure out that you are elect? By believeing a message that says nothing?

Your message does not give a person anything to believe in!

 

I repented of my sins, which is in itself "repentance toward God" in that I had sinned against Him.

Yep. My attitude toward God was that I had a bad one, and a sinful one, and offended Him. Changing my mind about Him was a change of mind about my ways and my sins. So it was in fact repentance of sins, which were toward Him. All together in one package.

It's impossibe to "change my mind" about all my sins? No, not at all. It was actually easy, because He granted me the gift of repentance Himself. He cahnged my heart in order to do so. And it was conviction about my sins, being lost, and being in darkness, that He used to draw me to Him as Savior.

When I repented it was for the whole entire scope of being a sinner. Seeking forgiveness, I found it in Him. There wasn't a one by one listing of sin. That isn't necesarry and this is why I say you hold an improper understanding of repentance.

We don't have all night for me to list all my sins here, and besides, they're nailed to the Cross and are forever gone.

 

I preach the Gospel, His elect respond in belief.

Even Paul didn't know who the elect are, yet he preached the Gospel,. and the elect responded in belief. 2 Timothy 2:9-10

Secondly, my message is the Gospel. It says it all as far as all His elect need to know to be saved.

My message is the Gospel of Christ. The elect respond to it in belief, and they find much in it to believe in.

 

The thread's author specifically requested that non-Calvinists are to respond here. Can we honor that request please?

Let's do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

 

How can they respond in belief? You cannot honestly tell ANYONE that Jesus died for them, how are they supposed to believe Jesus died for them? That is absolutely impossible.

Your message is meaningless, it cannot possibly encourage faith. If you cannot look someone in the eye and tell them for a FACT that Jesus loves THEM and died for THEIR sins, you have given them absolutely nothing to have confidence and depend upon.

You can't even be certain you are elect, the best you can do is hope you are elect. Then you must go about and prove it to yourself by works.

It must be terrible.

 

Not true. No need for this at all. I've responded kindly and told you I preach the Gospel, thus my message isn't meaningless.


And I see this thread isn't for me according to the OP.

- Peace

 

Don't act like a schizophrenic. It is one or the other. Either you repented of your sins or you repented toward God. Which one? Both are not true.

That is not what I said, is it?

If you don't have to list all your sins, then why say you do. It is an unbiblical theology--repent of all your sins. That is what was said. You say it was not meant. Say what you mean then. So many preachers are telling their people: "repent of all your sins"--something they cannot do. Don't say it if you can't do it.

 

The OP:

Here is how I would word #4

4] Anyone who understands they are guilty before a Holy God...needs to realize the severity of those crimes, and seek God's mercy and forgiveness. As God has commanded all men everywhere to repent and believe the Lord Jesus Christ for His salvation.

Likewise #6--Is someone believes on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior, calling on Him for the forgiveness of their sins...I explain to him that God would have them join...

 

I am simply demonstrating the logical conclusion of your doctrine. If Jesus only died for some people, then you cannot tell anyone that Jesus died for them. How is that supposed to encourage faith?

But that is not what Calvinists do, they preach the gospel like Arminians, they give the impression that anyone can believe, when in reality they do not believe this.