Arminians/non cals only respond here

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Of course it is a choice. A choice can be conditional, why could it not?

God chose those men who lapped water like a dog, and rejected those who kneeled down to drink. Are you saying God cannot choose according to a condition he predetermined? Why not?

 

He's wrong again. God chose Jacob over Esau before either were born, and before either had done good or evil. Why? Well, that Gods purpose according to election might stand. And it was not of him who willed nor worked, but of Him who called. So it is not because He saw we would believe.

A good thorough study of what foreknowledge actually is (not what winman assumes it is) might help clear this up. That, and a discontinuation of his proof-text/simple Bible methodology would also help.

 

Well if you read Mat 22:14 you would know Jesus said MANY are called but few are chosen. The reason God chose Jacob was because Jacob had faith and believed the promise given to his father Isaac. That is why he wanted the birthright. He also knew Esau would have no regard for his birthright and sell it for a bowl of soup.

Many men were called in Matthew 22, but only those who answered and came when called were chosen.

 

There's not a passage in the Scripture that says that God choose people for salvation by looking ahead and seeing who would believe.

 

Thanks for representing the position correctly. I would ask this though. Don't you actually agree with this, but just say that those "certain persons" are those whom He foreknew would come to him?

 

Yes, but unlike you I believe all men can believe and come if they choose to do so.

I believe the grace of God that bringeth salvation has appeared to all men. Some men of their free will will come to the light, some men of their free will will reject it.

I do not believe men are so utterly depraved they cannot respond to God, and I do not think God powerless to speak to the spiritually dead, convicting, drawing, and persuading them to believe.

You see, if you say that the spiritually dead cannot respond to God, you are ALSO denying God's power to speak to the dead. God does not have to make a person alive to speak to them, he can speak to anyone. Satan is dead, but God had no difficulty speaking to him in Job.

You've never considered that, have you?

Can a person be so dead that God is not ABLE to speak to them?

That is what you are teaching, you are teaching God does not have the power to speak to the dead. But he does, and one day he will call them out of their graves, and they will respond.

 

John Wesley's theology was anti-biblical.

 

In a previous post by your own admissions you yourself stated that you were a liar, a thief, & a blasphemer. Why should we trust your words knowing what you did say recently.

 

God doesn't "look ahead".
He is the beginning and the ending.
He sees all of time(which He created for us) at once:
2Pe 3:8
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Notice it goes both ways.

A day is no different than 1,000 years.

 

What? Are you sinless? Have you sinned? Then according to your own argument, why should we listen to you?

 

It's a bogus argument, the scriptures do indeed show God looks ahead to see who believes and who will not.

Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The scriptures say Jesus "knew from the beginning" who would not believe and who would betray him. This is foreknowledge of faith.

It also shows that God's foreknowledge includes actions people will take, refuting the Calvinist doctrine that foreknowledge only includes some "intimate" knowledge with the elect only.

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

More foreknowledge of faith and actions. Jesus knew that only Judas was a "devil", showing he knew the other 11 were sincere believers and would not betray him as Judas only chose to do.

The scriptures absolutely show foreknowledge of faith.

 

I do everyday in thought, word, and deed. I strive to be a SLAVE of God. Are you a SLAVE of God?

 

I did not intend to imply that God can't see the future.
Rather, that to Him it is not future.
He lives outside of time.

Isa 57:15
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One
that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy;
I dwell in the high and holy place,
with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit,
to revive the spirit of the humble,
and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

 

That verse does not say that to God it is not future or that He lives outside of time.

 

Indeed it does. You just don't grasp English well enough to receive it.

 

See folks this is an example not of debate or discussion but of personal attacks and childishness.

 

If you were capable of having this conversation, you would've acknowledged that the phrase "that inhabiteth eternity" , by definition alone, separates God from time.

You simply denied that the verse said anything at all that suggested that God exists outside of time, leading me to the logical conclusion.that English is not your strong suit.

Other options are:
You are agenda driven, and are reserving your own interpretation in hopes that I will reveal some weakness in mine. Then you can play an Ace , and call it a win for _____ ideology.

Or, maybe you are just a liar, who sows disinformation for his own twisted gratification.

Or, you are so obtuse, that you would answer any idea put forth with "no it isn't!".

The most gracious conclusion that I could draw from your response of : denial without counter , is that you simply don't understand the words in the verse.
If you do understand, then..." If ye were blind, ye should have no sin:but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. "

 

The God who the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Who has no beginning and no end.

Who is the standard for all that is right, true, and good

The special holy place of God

with those who have been born again and been pardoned by His grace.

God is waiting to give grace to those who are willing to repent. This is the context of this passage.