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I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by seekingthetruth, Feb 3, 2012.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Even deeper to the root of the matter is that faith is never a choice period.

    You do not CHOOSE to believe in anything.

    You are persuaded to believe it.

    If you can choose to believe or choose NOT to believe- try choosing NOT to believe that you exist.

    You can't.

    You never in your life made a CHOICE to believe that you exist.

    Choice has nothing to do with faith.
     
    #101 Luke2427, Feb 4, 2012
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I agree. But the question remains why did you have that faith and your neighbor did not?
    I agree. But where did that trust come from? Why did you have it and not your neighbor.
    Two points. 1. I agree. Faith comes from God. So, why did God give you faith but did not give it to your neighbor?

    2. I did not say it is pride. You were the one who brought up pride. :)
    But I did not assume you are better than anyone else. I assume just the opposite. It is you who keeps insisting there was something about you that was better than your neighbor resulting in your being saved and his being lost.

    So, the question remains, why? Why are you saved and your neighbor lost? If it is all of God, and not of your works or innate goodness, why are you saved and not your neighbor?
    I don't think faith is pride. It was you who made the accusation that folks who believe as I do are proud (even though there is no evidence to support that charge).

    But the question remains unanswered. If man's merit has no part in salvation why is one man saved and another lost? :)
     
    #102 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I agree. And so does Jesus. In Matthew 6:27 Jesus effectively says "Who by choosing can add an inch to his height or a single moment to his life?" The answer of course is no one can. If we believe we cannot add an inch to our height but we think we can choose to be forever saved we have simply deluded ourselves. :)
     
    #103 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  4. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I do nothing, because trust isn't work only men what to say it is, this trust comes from a will that is not our own, but the will of Jesus.

    I do not believe in free will, so where I go is by the will of Jesus, not my own.

    My salvation is 100 percent God because of the cost of my sin is death, not belief, not trust, not repentance.

    If I do all those things repent, believe, trust, it still doesn't pay my debt.

    I will not get rid of the responsibility of man. We are responsible to trust, but trust did not save us Jesus and the cross did.

    If the wages of my sin was trust then and only then will it be 100 percent me. The cost tells us it is 100 percent God.

    The faith I received from God tells me this.
     
    #104 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2012
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Okay, I agree. But you still have not answered the question. Why do you believe and your neighbor doesn't?
     
    #105 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    No Luke, according to Calvin these folks are truly convinced they are believers and the elect but are not. And Calvin taught that God himself is the one who sent this deception to deceive these unelect.

    You should preach that to your congregation tomorrow.
     
    #106 Winman, Feb 4, 2012
  7. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Because of pride, not because of God.

    God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge off the truth

    Faith is not pride in self, but pride in God and His word
     
    #107 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    I think we're going in circles.
     
    #108 Amy.G, Feb 4, 2012
  9. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Mat 23:37
    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

    Circular reasoning :laugh:
     
    #109 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you are saying that God saved you because you had pride in Him and His word but your neighbor did not have pride in God or His word so God did not save him?
     
    #110 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I agree. He seems to be circling, circling, circling, the bush but never actually coming to the point. :)
     
    #111 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  12. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    It is because of what God says that men is saved, not because of you being better than another.

    It is Him who wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, well I will not hinder them who are coming because of they are better than someone. I will praise God they are coming.

    It seems it is you are assuming the bad.

    God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
     
    #112 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I also have to note that seekingthetruth has been on the forum today but has not answer posts addressed to him. He seems to have bowed out of the discussion. That, of course, begs the question: If he didn't want to discuss it why did he start the thread? :D
     
    #113 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  14. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    You are not getting the conclusion you want so it will go in circles, because I am telling you what you want to believe to be true
     
    #114 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Some men believe God's word, while others choose to believe the devil's word, just like what happened in the garden.

    God tells us to have faith, to wait on what we cannot see, the devil tells you this is foolishness, and you should grab all the pleasure you can in the here and now.

    Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
    25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
    26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

    Moses grew up in Pharaoh's house, he could have had anything he wanted earthly speaking. But he believed the word of God, most likely taught him by his mother when she nursed him, and chose to believe in God and follow his ways.

    People want pleasure NOW. They love it and they want to enjoy it now. They do not want to be told they should not sin, they want to enjoy the pleasures of sin. They do not want to wait for a greater reward which they cannot see with their eyes, they want what they can see now.
     
    #115 Winman, Feb 4, 2012
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again, I agree with all that, but it still does not answer the question. If God wants all people to be saved, and you are no better than your neighbor, why did you get saved but your neighbor didn't? Why could God save you but, for some reason, could not save your neighbor?
     
    #116 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  17. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Right. Good thoughts.
     
    #117 Luke2427, Feb 4, 2012
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The only reason it keeps going in circles is that you don't seem to be able to articulate an answer to the question. I am not trying to get the conclusion I want, I am trying to get you to tell me why God could save you but could not (seemingly) save your neighbor. To me it seems like a pretty simple question but you seem to be having a terrible time answering it. :)
     
    #118 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
  19. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    It is because of pride

    Daniel is awesome

    Dan 10:12 Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.

    We are responsible, not what we do saves us but what God did.
     
    #119 psalms109:31, Feb 4, 2012
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. Jesus has a way of cutting through all of our biases and going right to the heart of the matter. :)
     
    #120 TCassidy, Feb 4, 2012
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