Featured God allows but does not author evil

The billions burning for eternity in hell might disagree. :tear:

 

Isa 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
Isa 45:6 That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other,
Isa 45:7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
Isa 45:8 "Drip down, O heavens, from above, And let the clouds pour down righteousness; Let the earth open up and salvation bear fruit, And righteousness spring up with it. I, the LORD, have created it.
Isa 45:9 "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'?


In Job chapter 1 he has lost his children, his servants, and his livestock. His response is found in verses 20-22.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshiped.
Job 1:21 He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD."
Job 1:22 Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.

In chapter 2 Job himself is struck with severe boils.

Job 2:9 Then his wife said to him, "Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die!"
Job 2:10 But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.


I know many will say, "but God only allowed Satan to attack Job". The reality is God is God and Satan is as powerless apart from God's will as we are.

 

Do you think God didn't know people would end up in hell when He created mankind?

 

Did I say that? I just said that those who end up in hell would disagree with that statement. Wouldn't you?

 

Amy, I just find the biblical teaching of an eternal hell much easier to accept when accompanied by the biblical teaching that those who go there do so DESPITE God's choice, not because of it.

 

I agree with Jonathan, would you choose not to exist? I don't know about you, but I am glad I exist.

Of course, if you did not exist you would not be aware of it.

I believe God made us so he would have someone to love, just as we all have a natural desire to have children that we can love. In fact, I would say we got this desire from God.

But love requires choice. It is absolutely impossible to force someone to love you, it cannot be done. Therefore man must be given free will to either choose for God or not. In fact, it would be criminal IMHO to create people who did not have free will. You could not be forced to love God, and if you were you would resent God.

So, folks have the choice to choose for God or not. It is crazy not to choose for God, but folks do a lot of crazy things for whatever reason they decide. It is impossible for a person who does choose for God to understand someone who rejects him. All you can do is ask the person why they reject God and they will tell you.

From my experience, it is because people are deceived and believe certain lies that they reject God. Most athiests will tell you they refuse to believe in God because they reject the idea that God would cause so much pain and suffering in the world, or they cannot believe in a God who would send folks to hell.

Both of these reasons are lies. God did not cause suffering to enter the world, Satan and man did, when Satan tempted man, and man believed Satan and introduced sin and disorder into the world.

And God does not desire to send any to hell, though God must separate sin from himself. God has gone so far as to give his Son to die for us to save us from our sin, so God does not desire any to go to hell.

And I think the reason many folks reject God is because they love their sin and want to continue in it. It is foolish, but that is their choice. Folks do lots of stupid things. Everyone knows that taking heroin is stupid, yet folks choose to do so anyway, because they love the pleasure of drugs. They know quite well it can become an addiction, but they choose to do it anyway.

So, the primary reason folks reject God is because they have believed some lie from the devil, there are hundreds of lies the devil uses to deceive folks. God has revealed the truth to men, so they are without excuse, but men choose to believe the devil because they WANT to.

 

Isa 45:7, I form the light,and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.

 

Oh, yes, I'm saved so of course I'm glad. But on the other hand, I feel as Paul did in that I might wished myself accursed for the sake of the masses who are going to hell. The idea saddens and troubles me deeply. As I said to Amy, I just find the biblical teaching of an eternal hell much easier to accept when accompanied by the biblical teaching that those who go there do so DESPITE God's choice, not because of it.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

So you honestly believes that evil comes directly from God? WOW!!

 

But remember, Satan told God, "If you let me at him, he'll curse you to your face"(paraphrasing this). God then told him what he could do, and couldn't do(take his life). God showed Satan that he didn't know as much as he thought he knew. In all of Job's tribulations, he wasn't foolish enough to blame God. God allowed Satan to do so much, but not everything satan wanted to do. If satan would have had his way, he would have annilhalated Job. However, God told him he couldn't kill Job.

 

That's a hard question. Jesus indicated that it would have been better never to have existed than to have existed and betrayed the Son of Man. "To be or not to be, that is the question." I'm glad God chose "to be" or else we wouldn't be having this conversation! Besides, he wants to save all men (2 Peter 3:9), but some are not willing (Luke 13:34).

 

I agree, brother, except that it doesn't matter whether the concept of hell is easy or not to accept, except from an apologetic perspective.

 

I think I have answered that. God knew exactly what Judas would do. He knew Judas would betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

And I do not appreciate you saying that God looks into a crystal ball. The scriptures say God has foreknowledge.

Jhn 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

Just because God can see and know the future does not mean it was determined. It CAN mean it was determined and I am sure it often was. But it can also mean that God can see the free will decisions of men. God could not have caused Judas to betray Jesus because the scriptures say God does not tempt any man.

Jesus chose Judas because he knew he would betray him and fulfill prophecy. God knew exactly what actions Judas would take. If Judas had betrayed Jesus for fifty pieces of silver, then that is what the prophecy would have said. Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, so that is what God said would occur.

Folks are trying to put God in a box. Just because we cannot know the future does not mean God cannot. This is REAL power. Anybody can predict what they have determined, nothing supernatural or powerful about that. I can predict I will have tuna for lunch today. I can make sure that is what I eat for lunch. Big deal.

 

That may depend on what you mean by 'bad' but the reality of Hell is an AWFUL truth that should cause us all to grieve. I don't believe anyone here is attempting to say that hell is not real, if that is what you mean.

False dichotomy. It's not about 'avoiding' it. Its about realizing and acknowledging the awful reality of it.

"I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race." - Paul

Should we dismiss Paul's sorrow and anguish as being his attempt to avoid justice? Should he have expressed more love for the justice by which his fellow countrymen will perish instead of for them as people?