Featured Did the Son of God Die?

You are still promoting gnosticism and dualism. The Son of God died on that cross according to the bible whether you like it or not.

 

True and He Himself also raised Himself from the dead while His body was in the tomb.

John 2

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.​

Man is tripartite (Composed of three elements)
or as some believe bipartite (Composed of two parts)​

I believe the scripture indicates that man is body, soul and spirit:​

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Or bipartite (2 parts)
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

In either case the scripture teaches that we are at least two components: material (Body) and immaterial (Soul/Spirit).​

If Jesus Christ was both truly God (and thus I believe - John 1:1) and truly man (as I believe because He came in the flesh - as a mortal human being subject to death) then thus was His being both material and immaterial:​

John 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.​

John 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.​

The scripture also teaches that the immaterial component of man has continuity after our mortal death and subsequently judged and goes into another existence until the resurrection of the body wherein heaven (New Jerusalem) or hell (Lake of fire) our eternal abode.​

In addition the scripture shows that the soul/spirit has intellect and will after death:​

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.​

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

Jesus Christ the Son of God at His death commended His spirit to the father.​

So, Jesus by His own spirit is how He raised Himself from the dead (a true human death which He experienced).​

John 2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.​

HankD​

 

Nonsense! You have told us that God is dead. Now you say He raised Himself from the dead.

 

No, I gave you scriptures and you have rejected what they say. Soooo what can I say, but what scripture says? The Son of God did die.

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

I believe that this is one of those areas about God, like the Trinity, that we just cannot understand. But there are certain clues in the Bible we can safely follow. The very fact that the Bible never explicitly says that God died - in those words - should guide our own thinking in this.

We certainly cannot divide God in such a way, in an attempt to satisfy our desire to be definitive in our theology, that undoes what Scripture already tells us - that God is One.

 

Alright let's use that formula. That means there is no Trinity, correct?

 

Thanks for your comments Tom!

 

Actually insisting that God died at the crucifixion is a denial of the Triune Godhead.

Scripture tells us that God is One. There can be no separation of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. To say that one dies is nonsensical.

God through the Apostle Paul tells us:

Colossians 2:9. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

So if the Divine nature of Jesus Christ died at the crucifixion why didn't God the Father and God the Holy Spirit die?

 

Aarg!!, one more crash and burn divisive thread.

The answer IMO and FWIW has to do with the nature of what Dr. Bob called the hypostatic union and the exact nature of Jesus Christ humanity as related to His death.

Personally I don't believe ANYONE here is denying that Jesus Christ died a true death.

I agree with Dr Bob that when we bring the hypostatic union into the picture we are treading on thin ice when we try to divide Christ up into human and divine.

I do believe the Scripture teaches that Christ had a human soul and spirit.

BTW and I'm sure Dr. Bob already knows this - there is a doctrinal schism between the reformed view (derived from the latin tradition) of the hypostatic union and the Eastern and Orthodox churches - many (perhaps even most denying the two natures of the Latin Tradition but upholding that Christ had only one nature - the Christ nature - a blending so to speak of human and divine) with one will.

If anyone is interested here is a web site with the different views:

http://www.ritchies.net/p2wk4.htm

This would certainly (IMO) affect our view of Christ agony and death.

I think we should be careful about throwing around names such as gnosticism and dualism because even to imply such of a BB member is probably not allowed as I believe these are bona fide "heresies".

Also by using these terms (gnosticism and dualism) shows that we have read somewhat the writings of men because they are nowhere mentioned as such in the Scripture.

After posting these many years I have seen a few reformed who hold to the Eastern and Greek doctrines of Christology and certain variations of the relationships between the persons of the Trinity (begotten, procedural) and so on...

To repeat however, I flaty reject the idea that anyone here has denied the real human death of Jesus Christ for our sins.

Suffice to say our issue is one of perception and understanding (or is it misperception and misunderstanding) each other.

HankD

 

Thank you for your comments. I certainly believe in the sacrificial Death of Jesus Christ in His human nature. I understand the concern expressed by Dr. Bob relative to the union of the Divine and human natures of Jesus Christ. That being said I believe it is serious error to state that God can die or did die! I believe Sproul has laid out the problem as well as it can be!

 

If in death you mean the whole being of Jesus is a corpse, then He couldn't raise Himself from the dead a corpse can do nothing.

I do believe my body becomes a corpse, but a soul not in Christ will be alive being where the worm dies not and where there will be gnashing of teeth.

To comprehend scriptural death where the soul is still tormented I don't think we can here.

 

As I said before. The scripture says the Son died so He died. You are evidently not able to receive the scripture as given, I am. The Son of God died. God has chosen to hide from us how all this works, but being left in the dark as to how He does this does not make His word void as you are seeking to do. The Son of God died and rose from the dead.

 

When humankind die, where do they go?

When Jesus died, where did He go?

 

I wasn't going to divert the thread on this but, now that you mentioned it, I think the term "trinity" can be misleading. I say that because it over-emphasizes God's seeming "threeness" (for want of a better word) over His unity. Much better, I believe, is the German Dreieinigkeit - Tri-unity.

But, at any rate, the "formulas", as you term them, are not quite the same. There is a difference between, on the one hand, encapsulating one truth in a single-word shorthand - one term (Trinity or Tri-unity) for a well-attested biblical concept and, on the other hand, writing many words (as you and other have done here) to argue for an emphasis that is not found in Scripture.

For the record: No one here is denying that the Son of God is God, or that His deity left Him when He died on the cross. If He died as a man only then we are all in deep trouble.

And yet we need to follow Scriptures lead. We have passages like 1 Tim. 2:5

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

We have no similar passages that say "God died".

 

Bill you are claiming the same thing that the Gnostics claimed. You have knowledge and those who disagree with you do not. You said that the Son of God did not die. The bible says He did. I think that sums up who is hearing Whom.

 

Yes that is exactly what is being denied here by some.

 

You are welcome, OR!

 

You have a reading comprehension problem. And, unless you can point me to some comment on this thread that I missed, you have made a serious and ill-considered accusation against fellow Christian(s).

You need to calm down, not be so hasty, that you don't really read what is being written.

 

You could be correct. I may have a reading comprehension problem, but I still say what the bible says that Jesus the Son died which this OP denies. You and Old-Regular may want to get together and see what you two are talking about when you say
"If He died as a man only then when are all in deep trouble." and he claims the death was only as a man.