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Featured No pastors in the Bible

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by alvin, Jul 28, 2013.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Do you use the term "Trinity"?
     
    #121 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
  2. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    BTW, was the Bible written in Greek or Latin? We translate ποιμένας everywhere in the Bible to be shepherd until we get to Ephesians 4:11 and we use a new word, a Latin word...we call it "pastor" and from this single tranlations we have developed the idea of the "office of the pastor" and used this office to supplant the Elders.
     
    #122 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  3. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    Again...the word "pastor" is in zero Greek manuscripts. None. I did not remove it because it was never there in the first place.
     
    #123 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  4. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Unfortunately, I believe you have it pegged.
     
    #124 Thomas Helwys, Jul 28, 2013
  5. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    Yes. Is this another attempt to try to ignore the current discussion?
     
    #125 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Where in the Bible do you find it?
     
    #126 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
  7. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    Break open your Greek Testaments and show me the Latin word in there. Show me the word "pastor." It is not there and never was.
     
    #127 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  8. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    I'm sorry, where do I find what?
     
    #128 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Where do you find the term Trinity in the Bible? I mean Trinity is not in scripture and you are ok with using that but pastor is not ok because it is not found in scripture. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your condemnation here?
     
    #129 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2013
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I gave verses showing the function of shepherding was taught by Jesus, the "Chief Shepherd." You ignored them. Pastor is shepherd and shepherd is pastor. By denying this you are disputing the plain Word of God, "doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings" (1 Tim . 6:4).

    I don't "covet" the title pastor. It was given to me by God and so I "magnify mine office." Several weeks ago as pastor I performed the funeral for Katsu, a believer at the request of Tomiro, a believer. Sunday as pastor I picked up Ushiro for church, an ex-drug pusher. As pastor and linguist I will be doing a favor for Mrs. T. this week. As pastor I'm trying to get Ushiro to invite his friend Ishikawa to church, a former gangster. I often counsel believers as pastor. Thursday after having a Bible study with Ushiro he took me next door to pray as pastor with a handicapped man.

    So you tell me, what is wrong with this? Which of these elements of my "pastoring" is un-Biblical?
     
    #130 John of Japan, Jul 28, 2013
  11. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    Becasue Paul and Peter were very clear on this issue, they left no room for debate and again...Elders are a creation of the Holy Spirit! Pastors are a creation of man. Are you aware that not only is the word pastor not found in the Bible but is never found in any use in ancient Greece. Classical Greek never translated ποιμένας as pastor and Koine Greek also never translated ποιμένας pastor. Always shepherd...and the only shepherd in the church, apart from the Great Shepherd...is Elders. WHy is this hard to accept?
     
    #131 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Alvin this is worth repeating. You desperately need it.
     
    #132 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    What is hard to accept is your willful ignorance of the word Pastor just to justify your personal agenda.
     
    #133 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Your error here is called in linguistics the root fallacy, which is the idea that the origin of the word gives it its modern meaning. The word "pastor" does have an etymology from the Latin word, but that proves nothing as to whether or not it should be used to translate the Greek word. The word "pastor" has been an English word for centuries. By insisting on going back to the Latin word, you are revealing a grave lack in your linguistic knowledge.
     
    #134 John of Japan, Jul 28, 2013
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    #135 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2013
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Huh?:null::null: :null: :null:
     
    #136 Jerome, Jul 28, 2013
  17. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    Yes...please review and then tell me who has been given the task of shepherding the Church.

    I Peter 5:1-5 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd (ποιμάνατε) the flock of God among you, exercising oversight (ἐπισκοποῦντες) not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God;

    Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

    WHo are the shepherds? Pastors or Elders. Are pastors even mentioned? Of course not. Elders and only Elders. This is not an opinion, all I have done is quote scriptues that you should know and teach.
     
    #137 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  18. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    This reminds me of Roman Catholics pointing out all the good they do to cover for all the evil they do. What you say has absolutely nothing to do with pastor supplanting the Holy Spirit appointed Elders of the church.
     
    #138 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  19. alvin

    alvin New Member

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    #139 alvin, Jul 28, 2013
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    And .......thanks for confirming what I said. you have zero experience in the ministry. None zilch. And quite frankly does you mother know you are on the computer?
     
    #140 Revmitchell, Jul 28, 2013
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