Featured No pastors in the Bible

:thumbs: Exactly.....:applause:

You wont be loved for those comments.....not on this board.

 

It is you who has not proven that the use of the term pastor does not mean shepherd and is unbiblical. You make false accusations and disrespect men of God whom you do not know. You are a child.

 

Aside from your false argument let's just say you are right. It still does not make a difference if the shepherd of the church is called a pastor, a shepherd, or and elder. There is no scripture that says only use certain terms to refer to the shepherd of the church. What your doing is pure legalism which is common in the house church movement.

 

Where did I cite by-laws and church constitutions?

I cited Scripture.

 

The plurality, though, could refer to the a single elder in several churches. Mind you, I believe in rule through a plurality of elders. I am simply saying that one of the elders has more authority than any one of the other elders and that one elder is the one who labors in word and doctrine.

That there can be, or perhaps should be, one man with more authority than his elder peers seems clear in that Paul said to Titus (a single person) "For this cause I left you in Crete that you might set in order the things that are lacking and that you might ordain elders in every city."

Now, either you believe in a bishop over several churches or over a city or you have to believe that Titus (not an apostle- keep in mind this is what we call a pastoral epistle) had more authority in each church in Crete than his elder peers.

 

The plurality, though, could refer to the a single elder in several churches. Mind you, I believe in rule through a plurality of elders. I am simply saying that one of the elders has more authority than any one of the other elders and that one elder is the one who labors in word and doctrine.

That there can be, or perhaps should be, one man with more authority than his elder peers seems clear in that Paul said to Titus (a single person) "For this cause I left you in Crete that you might set in order the things that are lacking and that you might ordain elders in every city."

Now, either you believe in a bishop over several churches or over a city or you have to believe that Titus (not an apostle- keep in mind this is what we call a pastoral epistle) had more authority in each church in Crete than his elder peers.

 

I have a different take on the roles of Timothy and Titus. In both cases, Paul left them behind when he left and delegated to them his apostolic authority to do certain tasks in his place. So Timothy and Titus were, in effect, acting apostles to do what Paul would have done if he was still there.

The books of I Timothy and Titus were instructions on how to do Paul's apostolic responsibilities. Try reading these books with this in mind, and you will see what I mean.

 

I know I am late to this party, but let me chime in anyway.

While I think I agree with the heart of what you are saying (Plurality Elder, non-hierarchical church governance), I would point out a couple of things.

First, there is nothing wrong with calling Elders "pastors." Pastor just means shepherd, and is still used in some English speaking countries to denote this....in fact, it was used in 16th century England in some areas, when the KJV Bible was translated, which is why the King James Bible Says,

"Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"

Notice it does not say "elders" there...that is because pastor and elder refers to the same office.

Second, there is no requirement in the New Testament stating how many elders a church should have. "Elders" are to be appointed; I agree in the best case scenario this would be multiple. But this is not actually commanded anywhere.

So, here is my thought. Each church should have at least one elder/pastor. That is all scripture tells us. Some churches do not have more than one person that qualifies: my church doesn't. As the sole Pastor/elder in my church, I have been trying to move our church to a plural eldership model, but I have no qualified men. Most of the men in my church are either not able to teach, or young, new believers. Thankfully, the Bible does not set a required number on the elders....one or more is fine.

 

Unfortunately he has been brainwashed by Frank Viola and the house church movement.

 

That is absolutely the most Un-Biblical tripe I have ever heard.

Again, you cannot invent commands in the Bible, by looking at how things happened. There is NO COMMAND for multiple eldership, and indeed, churches were formed WITHOUT elders...they were appointed later. Paul sent Timothy and Titus to churches that were already formed, and which he referred to as "Churches" to appoint elders at a later time.

Second, you are playing silly semantic games. "Shepherd" or "Pastor" most certainly IS an office in the Church. It is the office of "Elder" or "Overseer." Again, SCRIPTURE...

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

I guess "apostle" is not an office either?

And no, "pastor" is NOT a Greek word. The Greek word is "poimen", and can be translated in English as EITHER "pastor" or "Shepherd." Its two words for the same thing. You might as well be saying, "Its not a car, its an automobile!" You are just being ridiculous.

As for our local church, you offensive little man, this is the only church in the area, and it is most certainly a "church." You don't get to make that determination.

 

Ahh, well now it makes sense. Why on earth would a Baptist follow the teachings of a Emergent church heretic like Frank Viola???

 

Hey, aren't we past the page limit moderators?