Featured Why is it worth fighting over?

Dr. Donald G. Barnhouse was a full-fledged Calvinist. He did not preach in an Arminian fashion.

Kennedy,according to Mark Dever "was unashamedly Calvinistic in the soteriology he presented in his sermons."

You just don't know what you are talking about winman. Ever heard of Knox Theological Seminary? He even lectured on the life and doctrine of John Calvin.

 

Again, we preach/proclaim jesus death and resurrdction as ONLY hope for lost sinners, and we 'do our part" in teaching that, and the Holy Spirit does "His work" to save those whom God intended to get saved!

God alone knows who the elect are, so why say that we would be liars, or preaching a false gospel, as you tend to do?

 

IF we read the messages of paul and the other Apostles on the Gospel, the salvation message is pretty clear and concise, and the Doctrines of grace and full blown calvinisn some seem to think we teach shows up AFTER salvation, in the Epistles, as we get into the meat of the word!

 

Reynolds,

I know for a fact what Dr. Kennedy's doctrinal position was on the issue of Calvinism, because he preached on it often. He also preached plenty of messages on other topics. Charles Spurgeon didn't always preach on Calvinism. R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, and Sinclair Ferguson -- noted Calvinists all -- don't always preach on Calvinism. But don't make the mistake of assuming their Calvinistic theology is/was a secondary issue. Dr. Kennedy said the following:

"Many people think they have a problem with election or predestination, but as I said earlier, their problem really is the doctrine of man. They don't understand or believe the doctrine of the fall of man. They basically deny original sin. Because once you acknowledge man is fallen, and man is born in a sinful condition; that is heart, mind, and will are against God, then you will see that election is essential if anyone is going to go to heaven."

You can find this quote here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdbLouq98L4 (Dr. Kennedy's comments are found at 38:49-42:18 and 53:22-56)

The mistake you may be making is concluding that differences between Arminians and Calvinists end when the Gospel is preached. Both sides have theological presuppositions that influence their understanding of the Gospel and how it is presented.

 

That is still a clever way of hiding your true beliefs. You cannot tell or guarantee anybody that Jesus died for him personally. Exactly what are you telling him to believe? What? That Jesus died for SOME sinners? What sinners?


People are not that stupid, they are not fooled by clever words, that is why you see so many Calvinists asking if they are the elect.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...l2.2206j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Sooner or later, you are going to have to tell this new convert what you believe, that Jesus only died for some sinners. Then that person is going to wonder if he was one of the lucky persons God chose before the foundation of the world, or if he is one of the vastly greater number whom God chose to pass by.

People know if Jesus did not die for them that their faith is vain, and that is why so many Calvinists desperately want to know how they can know for certain they are elect.

You can run, but you can't hide for long.

 

Maybe we are talking past each other.

I used to be involved with Evangelism Explosion, so I know what it is about.

Was Dr. Kennedy "anti-Arminian"? I don't know many Calvinists who you could label as anti-Arminian. Anti-Arminian theology? That's different. I have nothing against Arminians as individuals, although I vehemently oppose their doctrine.

As far as your anecdotal comments "Unlike many Calvinists, I have actually read what Calvin wrote" and "Calvin does not even agree with people today call "Calvinism"", I am content to let them go unaddressed since you did not back up your assertions.

P.S. In my previous post I quoted this from Dr. Kennedy: "...then you will see that election is essential if anyone is going to go to heaven." So, one could reasonably extrapolate from his statement that, without election, no one can go to heaven.

 

D. James Kennedy is one of my favorite preachers of all time. His Sunday night stuff was better than his Sunday morning stuff which was often political. I listened to a series he did on the doctrines of grace wherein he made some of the best arguments for Calvinism I have ever heard.

Not only was Kennedy a died in the wool Calvinist- he might have been THE PREMIER Calvinist in the 20th century.

As a matter of fact, some of the arguments I use to show Winman the folly of his Arminianism, I got from Kennedy.

I am constantly trying to explain to Winman that a man given the opportunity will always choose what he most wants to do between the options available to him.
I illustrate that with a man holding a gun to Winman's head telling Winman to give him all of his money. Winman may want a great deal not to give the man his money, but he wants a great deal more to live. He chooses what he MOST wants.

I got that from Kennedy.

 

And the Philipian jailer refutes your error. He could not be regenerated, he had not believed, he did not even know what he must do to be saved, but he truly and sincerely wanted to be saved with all his heart.

And Romans 6 proves that an unregenerate man can obey and believe the gospel.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Verse 16 shows that men have both ability and option, they can either (whether) yield themselves to sin unto death, "or" yield themselves to obey righteousness.

Verse 17 says these Romans "were" servants to sin, but they obeyed the gospel from the heart.

Verse 18 shows that AFTER believing the gospel, these believers "BEING THEN made free from sin BECAME servants of righteousness.

Total Inability is utterly refuted right there in scripture. :thumbs:

 

Yes, if you read carefully you see that I said he was Presbyterian.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2119433&postcount=70

Nevertheless, he preached like an Arminian, he said Jesus died "for our sins". No Calvinist can honestly say that to unbelievers. Actually, they can't honestly say it to anybody, just because you believe Jesus died for you doesn't make it so. If Limited Atonement is true, there are probably great numbers of folks who have convinced themselves they are saved because they go to church, read the Bible, give tithes and offerings, etc... But if Jesus did not die for them personally, their faith is absolutely vain and they will go straight to hell.

What you believe does not determine reality.

Again, I was quite aware when I copied and pasted that article that both Barnhouse and Kennedy were Presbyterians. I knew Kennedy was a Presby over 30 years ago.

Nevertheless, Kennedy also preached like an Arminian, telling unbelievers that Jesus died "for us". No one who believes in Limited Atonement can honestly tell another person that, because you cannot possibly know who is elect and who is not.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2119436&postcount=73

In fact, if Limited Atonement is true, you cannot possibly know Jesus died for you. Just because you are "playing Christian" doesn't make you a real believer, you could easily be one of the tares.

This is that house built on sand.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Do you really believe faith founded on a complete uncertainty will weather the storm when it comes?

 

No... But I'm interested in why you asked the question...

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

So... share with us how YOU know you're saved....

The Archangel

 

The Word of God

1 Pet 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

You must believe the Word of God to know you are saved. You can't change it, or redefine it, you must believe what it actually says.

First, Jesus died for ALL MEN.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Are you lost? Then Jesus came to save you.

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jesus took away the sin of the world, not just some men.

Jhn 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Jesus is the Saviour of the world, not just some men.

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jesus also compared himself to the serpent that Moses lifted up in the wilderness. This brass serpent would save "every one" and "any man" who "looked" upon it, not just some men.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Again, the brass serpent would save every one and any man who looked upon it. No man was excluded from it's saving power.

I could go on and on, but I KNOW Jesus died for ME. That does not make me special, I do not boast of being elect, Jesus died for ALL MEN, and that simply includes me.

Therefore, if I come to Jesus and place my trust in him I can KNOW I have eternal life. My faith is not vain, it is founded on the solid rock, the word of God.

1 Jhn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I don't have to go online and ask Reformed preachers if I am elect, I KNOW Jesus died for me, the Word of God says so. And Jesus said that he will in no wise cast out any man who comes to him.

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

I don't have to persevere to know I am saved, I don't have to hold on and hope I endure to the end, I have the solemn promise of Jesus Christ the Son of God that if I came to him (and I did), that he would save me.

I KNOW by the Word of God that I am saved.

And that is a very good thing to KNOW.

 

ONLY the elct come to know Jesus, are part of his true flock, so we can know with assurance that He died for us, and has provided salvation to us!

And Jesus died for all men/all sinners...

WHY? What did it accomplish if most of them stay in their sins and are condemned in final judgement?

what good did it do for them?

 

Now I am going to remind you like I did Icon. When you speak of election to non cals you need to remember that non cals do not define it they way cals do. Acting like we have a common understanding of election means we just end up talking past one another.

 

NOPE. If Limited Atonement is true, it is impossible to know if you are one of the elect. It can't be done.

Someday you are going to put on your thinking cap and realize what I am telling you is perfectly true. Archangel knows I am correct, he said so.

Again, just because you believe you are elect does not make it so.

You might believe you are God's gift to women, and they laugh at you behind your back. :laugh:

 

I said nothing of the sort. I agreed that 1 Corinthians 15 said that if Christ is not raised our faith is in vein. That's all.

You flatter yourself.

The Archangel

 

There are so many hermeneutical and contextual challenges in what you posted that, literally, I do not have time to address them all (and it isn't like it would help anyway).

But, boiling it down, you're essentially saying that you're saved because you've exercised faith.

And, one does indeed need to persevere, but that is another discussion.

The Archangel

 

I'm interested in why you think Christ would require of him to sell all that he had in order to be 'saved'. Those with Christ had done so, you know. "Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee."

Is that a requirement to be born again from above? To sell all, to leave all, and follow Him?