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OK. Are you ready to face the implications of your held beliefs ? The implications are that God has no right to do what he pleases and if He does then He is unfair and untrue to Himself. Did He have a right to do as He pleased with Job's family ?

 

And you think your post accurately portrays how Calvinists feel or believe?

 

Steaver seems to think that God can do whatever He pleases --but He better not lay a finger against any of my loved ones or I will be angry/sad with Him.

 

:thumbsup:

....but it will make for some conversation....

 

To be honest I ignored the rest of your post because all it was an attempt to pick a fight.

I do not rejoice over anybody who dies in their sins. It is a grievous thing to pass into a Christ-less eternity So, instead of lamenting the condition of the lost, you use it to make points. Am I God? Can I say with surety that a person who died did so in the Lord? For that matter can I say with surety that they died lost? On this side of glory we can never know for sure. By observing what people confess and practice we may have a strong indication of where they stand in the Lord, but we lack perfect knowledge.

I cannot blame God if he chooses to pass over someone I know or love. I may grieve if I believe that person perished in their sins, but I will not go into a state of depression. Whether we believe or not, God is righteous and holy and deserving of our praise. He is not capricious. None of us know the depth of God's knowledge; how all events are weaved into the tapestry of his will. When the wicked perish it is for a reason. Their tragic end may be what God uses to call one of his elect.

Am I concerned about the condition of the lost? Yes. But I rejoice knowing God is sovereign and that he called me to be one of his children. I am able to do both without diminishing the other.

 

Offer ?
There is no offer. None at all.
Salvation was freely given by God to whomever He chose to, not whoever chose Him.
Why should God have the right to do what He pleased with Job and His family, and not the right to choose for Himself who enters into His heaven because He wants them to ?
Now, who's putting God in a box as we of the doctrine of grace have often been accused of doing ?

 

:thumbsup:

So then God can't do whatsoever He pleases?

Neither side of the debate disagrees with this, or at least I agree with this. This is the sinner's natural inclination, to reject, to run away from, to tromp down God's mercy. That's all they do. That's all they know to do. It takes God to come in and take the reins....

Jeremiah 31:18
"I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself, `Thou hast chastised me, And I am chastised, as a heifer not taught, Turn me back, and I turn back, For thou [art] Jehovah my God."(YLT)

"I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.(KJV)

When God turns a man, he's turned. :thumbsup:

Again, neither side of this debate disagrees with this, at least I agree with this. :thumbsup:

 

You have detected an agenda did you my brother.....LoL :thumbs:

 

I have been refraining from posting for reasons similar to the ones expressed by Reformed. Let me offer the following:

1. No one goes to Hell unwillingly.

There are some that think God saves and damns actively. I think the Bible clearly shows that we are all damned already. What God does in salvation is not to send struggling, drowning sinners a life preserver, instead He recussitates those who have already drowned and are lifeless at the bottom of the ocean being eaten by fish.

Those who are dead, however, want to be so.

2. We desperately plead with all to come to Christ in repentance and faith

One thing that Romans 10 shows us is this: We must take the Gospel to people, the people must hear the Gospel, and they must respond to the Gospel in order to be saved. There is an offer of salvation and it is made through us as Christ's ambassadors.

3. We pray--earnestly--that God will save

God ordains the ends (salvation) AND the means (our evangelism, our prayer, etc.). So, in essence we pray for and work for the salvation of our friends, family, strangers, etc. God is often pleased to grant our petitions to save.

4. Our evangelism efforts are not primarily man-ward, but God-driven

We preach the Gospel because we are commanded to AND because we understand it is the only way of salvation for those we love. And so we beg and plead, and we offer the Gospel, trusting that God will regenerate and salvation will come to our friends.

Also, if one preaches the Gospel simply out of a love for "man," it is very possible to lose that love--especially if a hostile tribe kills your husband or father (see: Elizabeth Elliot and Rachael Saint). But, if one preaches the Gospel because he must do so out of obedience, then you go to the husband/father killing tribe--even after they kill your husband/father--and plead with them to accept Christ (see: Steve Saint...who was baptized by the man that killed his own father).

So, our praying for and working for people to come to Christ is no different from an Arminian praying for and working for people to come to Christ.

The Archangel

 

Those who truly seek Christ with their heart, have already be given salvation. Blessed(past tense) are they with hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall(positive word) be filled. Those who hunger and thirst already have the grace of God working a will and a do to come to Him.


And as others have stated before, salvation is NOT an offer, but a gift...

 

Again, salvation isn't an offer, but a gift. He gives salvation to whosoever He wills....

Only those who God has regenerated have the abillity, the desire, the "want to", to believe on Jesus Christ.