Featured Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election !

Christmas is just past. I would guess that most of you received a Christmas present. Someone bought it, brought it to you, and you simply reached out and took it...................now...........after Christmas did you go around telling everyone " look what I bought for myself?" No, it was a gift.....but it wasn't yours until you accepted it. You could have refused it, told the person you didn't want it. Doesn't mean they didn't get it for you, or that they didn't want you to have it.
However, if you did take it, you did nothing but accept the free gift. Such is salvation...............Christ offers it freely to ALL.........it is your GIFT............but, it's not actually yours until you receive it. You can refuse His gift. Doesn't mean He didn't offer it. You just didn't want it. If you accept it, there's no bragging, because it's nothing you've done. Christ bought it (on the cross), offers it to you, and you take it. So, someone saying "I believed" isn't bragging or claiming you saved yourself, no more than saying "I got this present for Christmas" is bragging or saying you bought it yourself.

 

I understand and appreciate your irenic reply. I have to tune SBM out because his ramblings make no sense.

My early years as a Christian were spent being mentored by a godly Arminian pastor. While he believed in Synergism he did not hold the attitude that he had anything to boast about before God. He and I are now on opposite sides of the debate but I love and respect him dearly. I hope that I can one day emulate his compassion and love.

 

Argumentum ad nauseam! You keep saying this but the shear repetition does not make it true. There is only one default to the human condition namely:

You compound the problem by boasting about how you are not boasting like all of us uninformed miscreants.

Irenic? You get the $7.00 word-of-the-day award! :thumbs:and I appreciate the sentiment. I, too, had a pastor during my impressionable years that I respect greatly. He is a brilliant man and can easily articulate every doctrinal position he holds to the smallest detail, chapter and verse. That is not what I remember him for. He was blessed with half a dozen teen-aged boys.... well let me just say the half-dozen or so of us young fellers tried the patience of a many good saints over the years. I was a rude young man and always addressed him as Preacher. The long and short of it is that Preacher loved us like his Savior instructed him to do. 40 years later, I still call him Preacher, but there is a lot much more respect attached these days. When I was struggling with the call to preach I sought his advice and counsel. One of the best pieces of advice I got from him was when he said it was important to have good doctrine but more important to have great love.

 

So your saying God based His hatred for the non-elect on knowing beforehand that mankind would fall

 

The gifts and callings of God are w/o repentance...(Rom. 11:29)

 

You have said repeatedly that if a person does not hold your position concerning Election they are not truly saved. By your logic, holding that doctrinal position is an act of human will. If any active participation by an individual is a demonstration of free will then you, too, are boasting by default.

To carry your logic further consider Paul's active participation in Romans 10. Following on the heels of your beloved Chapter 9 that outlines what you believe to be the true Gospel Paul says,

Romans 10:8-13 NAS77
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

I have bolded and underlined these very words of Scripture in which Paul directs active participation in those things which lead to salvation: confessing with your mouth, believing in your heart, with the heart believing, with the mouth confessing, believing in Him, calling upon the name of the Lord.

If Paul is mistaken in Chapter 10 then there is nothing to support him being correct in Chapter 9. Paul does not call confessing with the mouth as a means to boast. He calls it the way to being saved. Paul does not call believing with the heart a means to boast. He calls it the way to being saved. Paul does not call the act of calling upon the name of the Lord as a means for boasting. He calls it the way of being saved.

You cannot have it both ways. If we are passive in every way to be saved then Paul is a liar. If Paul is a liar in one thing he is a liar in all things and we have no surety of Election. If you conclude that if we are active in any way means that we subjugate the Sovereignty of God and boast of our own free will then Paul again is a liar.

Is there a third option I'm missing or will you just reply with that default comment?

 

Brother Padre,

SBM is a sad soul...pay no attention to him...

 

According to some Cals in this discussion, the following verse speak of "works" done by man:

Consider this episode in which Jesus Himself speaks to the "works" of people:

The "works" in question were actual works, not mere actions such as having faith, or calling on the name of the Lord, or believing. Those of us who are called to preach are not saved because we are called to preach. Rather, I believe, we are called to preach because we are saved.

 

How many times have we seen this Calvinist OP Fallacy presented? 10, 100, 1000?

1) People make decisions based on what they think is best. If a person was raised in a Christian home, so they learned of the love and kindness of God, and the snares of the devil, they are more likely to choose to love Jesus with all their heart. Thus, as ambassadors, we are not only to plant, but also to cultivate, to water, and to walk the talk so we lead others to Christ as best we can.

2) Note the repeat of the claim non-Cal's do not believe in Election. Utter nonsense, we do not believe in Unconditional Election. Calvinists just repeat their mantra.

3) Who makes the difference in being saved or lost? Do non-Cal's say we saved ourselves? Yes some do, but others do not. I believe God, when He accepts our worthless filthy rag faith, and credits it as righteousness or not, makes the actual difference in being saved or not. Anyone can believe till the cows come home, if God does not credit it as righteousness, no salvation occurs. Thus we boast in the Lord and not in ourselves.

To which a Calvinist replied, you a boaster! You have got to love them folks. They copy and paste arguments, but can offer nothing but personal attacks to biblically based corrections.

 

Invalid comment !

 

It is very invalid. I would even go as far as to say it is heresy.

No one is born already justified. That is heresy.
We are all born sinners--elect and non-elect alike. That is why Jesus said to Nicodemus: "You must be born again." Nicodemus was among the unregenerate, not saved, not justified. Later he became born again and justified; not before that time. God works within the confines of time, even though he observes from outside time. He created time for man.

He accepted Nicodemus only after Nicodemus accepted him. Hence the statement "You must be born again" to Nicodemus, would have been a ridiculous statement for Christ, the mighty Creator, to make.
God works within the confines of time. Elect or not, Nicodemus had to use his will, his freedom of choice to accept what Christ had to offer before Christ could accept him.

 

A agree with the first half of your post, but not the second.

How does one make themselves born? They have nothing to do with it. I'm sure that's why Jesus uses the analogy. He also goes on to say that the wind (The Holy Spirit) "blows" where it will. In other words, we don't control the wind, or even see it coming. We only know there's wind because we see its effects.

 

How is a man born again? The key lies in 1Pet.1:23.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The new birth (as described by some here) is a mystical, mysterious, metaphysical (even superstitious) experience whereupon a man goes into his yogic position and while doing nothing, having read nothing, having ever heard anything about Christ; suddenly and mysteriously the Holy Spirit comes strangely and mystically upon him and transforms him from within giving him a new heart.
Sorry, I don't believe in fairy tales.

According to Peter he must hear the gospel first. He must have faith in the gospel first.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
It is absolutely necessary to hear the gospel before one is born of the Spirit. It can't happen without the Word of God. Peter says that quite dogmatically.

John reiterates the same truth:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--In the context of the new birth (vs.13), Christ must be received; one must believe on his name. It is imperative.

The gospel must be heard. Faith must be exercised.
Regeneration/salvation/justification all happen at the same time. It is an event, not a process.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Boy that is rich.