Featured Why man hates the Gospel Truth of Election !

Just like we are saved by grace through the means of faith, that faith is by means of the Word. So we are saved by grace, through faith (Eph. 2:8-9) by hearing the word of God (Rom. 10:17).

 

"Born Again" in this passage is a passive participle. Passive, again, means that the subject is not acting and cannot be acting upon himself. The action discussed is done to the subject.

There is, in fact, the discussion of the "Divine Passive" where God is doing the action because the subject is acted upon from the outside.

So, you can't argue for what you're arguing for using this verse. The Greek simply doesn't allow for your conclusion.

The Archangel

 

Bump...so it doesn't get overlooked...

 

Bumping...

 

This is great!! :applause:

 

And yet, in the scriptures we are told:

All of these seem to indicate some action taken by man, which is why I'm not like some of these intense literalists who believe even believing is a work of man. It, to my understanding, cannot be held as a work because we are told also

To say calling on God is a work (as detailed in Romans 10:13) makes the scripture in Ephesians either outright wrong or contradictory.

 

Brother Tony,


Those verses have to do with man after being given life...the ability to respond..

Could Lazarus have come forth prior to hearing Jesus' voice calling him out of the tomb?

We were dead, in a spiritual tomb, with no ability to seek, knock, believe or ask. God calling us and us responding shows God already at work...

--for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.(Phpps. 2:13 YLT)

 

At first you called me 'sir' and then edited it. LOL J/K :laugh:

 

1) False assertion - man hates election. Truth, non-Cals love conditional election.
2) False assertion - being saved by grace through faith means saved by grace and then given faith. Truth, if God alone credits our worthless filthy rag faith as righteousness, He alone saves us by setting us apart spiritually in Christ.

 

Question, then, and please consider my point of view as a non-Cal who does not hold to the Calvinist 5-point definition of Irresistible Grace:

If God gives a member of the Elect the "gift of repentance" and they do NOT repent, they do not confess the Lord with their mouth, are they still Elect?

I only ask because it seems like, in the effort to proclaim that God does everything for man in salvation (which is not something I disagree with, only with the process surrounding it) some of us seem willing to overlook scriptural evidence in order to maintain the dictates of a man who lived 1500 years after the Resurrection.

 

Well Scripture says salvation is with confession of the mouth. No one who has been given the gift of repentance will not repent. It is irresistible.

 

If God grants repentance, they will repent...

If God grants faith, they will exercise it and believe...

If God gives life, they live...

God moves upon sinners and they move. His gifts and callings are w/o repentance...

Again, when Jesus called to Lazarus, could he have refused to come out of the tomb?

 

:applause:

 

DHK

You get it wrong over and over. You are exposed over and over. Do you take the help offered you, NO you refuse it.

Exhibit one;

This is clear as a bell. Do you thank AA for correcting your error.....no

you respond here;

AA catches you.... and responds-

...he said to avoid his own error which was pointed out to him......

The Archangel

and again;
And... what exactly do you mean by this, other than an attempt to obfuscate.

Where does 1 Peter 1:23 say anything about "God changes me when I believe on him?" Do you not know, have you not heard that "born again" in 1 Peter 1:23 is also passive, meaning that something had been done to Peter's recipients, not done by them?
The Archangel


Someone have mercy and throw in the towel for DHK:laugh:

Your man centered error shows once again.
exhibit 2;

Do you thank Con 1......no..here is your response to correct teaching;

SO??? you should repent and thank these men saying...I see my error and will take steps to correct what I have taught in error to those who sit under my teaching as it is wrong...I see that now!

No, you persist in your error as usual:laugh: Oh the humanity:laugh:

 

You are adding a, "do" where there is no do. . .but, so did Nicodemus.

I think that we would all agree that Jesus was a great communicator. He crafted his words to each situation and person perfectly. He very carefully and skillfully used this analogy for the VERY reason we are having this debate. He told Nicodemus something that he couldn't DO. Nicodemus was certain that he could DO. Jesus, through this amnalogy shattered his worldview. Jesus knew exactly what he was doing when he chose his words.

You don't come to salvation. Salvation comes to you.

 

Jesus was a very great communicator. That is why he didn't need Calvin to come 1500 years later and tell people how to interpret that which was so obvious to everyone before his time.
Jesus carefully explained everything to Nicodemus without allegorizing any of it.
The he applied an OT illustration--the serpent in the wilderness.
If they wanted to be healed they had to look in faith to that serpent.
In application to himself Nicodemus was to look to Christ. Christ was to be the object of his faith.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
--The meaning is clear and need not to be looked at through Calvinism's eyes.

 

So Lazarus could come forth all by himself?

Jesus called out to him and he came out...

When God speaks, those He speak to, will respond.

 

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.