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When are we made righteous? When Christ died, or when we undergo the circumcision of Christ? When we undergo the circumcision of Christ. Those that deny this truth are many.

 

Note how I have said many will be made righteous when they undergo the circumcision of Christ by the shed blood of the Lamb, and thus by the obedience of Christ many will be made righteous. All SBM does is misrepresent others, because Calvinism is unbiblical.

Romans 5:19 does not say the instant Christ died, everyone who will be made righteous was made righteous at that instant. So rather than discuss this obvious truth, we get obfuscation. Go figure.

 

No matter how you slice it regeneration has to precede faith. Grace unmerited favor changes a dead mans heart, also, if there is no Grace there will never be any faith to embrace the gospel.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

Finding no support in Romans 5:19, the subject is now changed to a denial of Ephesians 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is God's gift. Now the Calvinists claim the pronoun translated "this" refers to faith, or includes faith in its scope. But the idea is simply we have been saved by God's grace, and salvation is not the result of works. Thus "through faith" precedes salvation by grace. Just as when you enter a room "through" a door, going through the door precedes entering the room. So simple a child could understand. Our faith in Christ provides our access to the grace in which we stand, Romans 5:2.

One after another the Calvinists will post claims that cannot be supported from scripture.

Its as easy as 1, 2, 3. One, when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, He then (2) puts us spiritually in Christ, where we (3) undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, holy and blameless, washed by His blood.

 

You are one guilty of misrepresenting what I said. Here is what you have said,

and the intended meaning is that the instant Christ died, the supposed previously chosen elect were instantly made righteous. And that sir is not true according to scripture.

So rather than defend your mistaken view, you misrepresent mine. Go figure.

Here is the truth as taught by scripture. Its as easy as 1, 2, 3. One, when God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, He then (2) puts us spiritually in Christ, where we (3) undergo the circumcision of Christ and arise in Christ a new creation, holy and blameless, washed by His blood. Thus we are made righteous, not at the instant of Christ's death, but when we are spiritually placed in Christ by God.

 

Yet again SBM posts falsehood, rather than defend his mistaken beliefs. This is why Calvinists do not seem to grow when exposed to the light of scripture, they scurry away into the darkness of misrepresentation.

Your view is this: The instant Christ died, the supposed previously chosen elect were instantly made righteous.

My view is this: The instant Christ died, He became the propitiation or means of salvation, for the whole world, all mankind. But only when God places an individual spiritually in Christ, do they "receive" the reconciliation provided by Christ's death.

Romans 5:19 does not say the many were made righteous. It says the many "will be" made righteous. Just read it folks.

 

Proof by editing my post to misrepresent my view. Romans 5:19 says by Christ's obedience the many will be, in the future, made righteous. That would be after God puts them spiritually in Christ and undergo the circumcision of Christ.

 

Then lets take a look at Romans 5:19, " For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous." Now this is what I said concerning this verse:

"Did Christ's death make anyone righteous? Nope. His death provides the promise that many will be made righteous, when God credits their faith as righteousness and transfers them spiritually into Christ. That is when they undergo the circumcision of Christ and are made righteous."

I was addressing the timing, but you edited it to make it appear as a blanket statement. And you have repeated this fallacious argument rather than address our real difference, i.e. the timing of when Christ death makes people righteous.

Folks, this is all you get from Calvinism, mistaken interpretation of verses such as Romans 5:19, followed by personal attacks on those who differ.

 

Brother Van,

Laying aside Romans 5:19, there are so many others verses of scripture that teach so much was actually, not potentially, accomplished by the atonement that it must only be applicable to the elect, otherwise there would be nobody in Hell. Consider all the following verses/thoughs-

Scripture teaches us the atonement was more than just a pardon, but in fact a substitutionary atonement, thus it must be limited. Peter declares, "24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed". If our sins were already "bore" and we our "healed" by his stripes, God cannot than make someone "bore" their own sins again and "unheal" them.
Moreover, Jesus was said to actually have been literally "made sin" on behalf of those he died for. We read, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin" (1 Corinthians 5:21a). He poured out the wrath of God on his son by forsaking him on the cross, thus he cannot pour out his wrath again on those he died for.

Further, the word "ransom" is also used in scripture in reference to the atonement, "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). God would not be just to collect a ransom two times-one on Calvary and once on the sinner by sending them to Hell.

Finally, the atonement could not apply to all men because of what scripture tells us it actually accomplished (not potentially accomplished). The Bible has many passages of scripture that makes this undeniably clear-
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14)
"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Romans 5:10)
"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." (Romans 5:9)
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" (Galatians 3:13)
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Ephesians 1:7)
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Hebrews 10:10)

Thus according to the scriptures above, the atonement accomplished perfection (our position before God), reconciliation, justification, redeemed us, forgave us our sins, and sanctified us (i.e. set us apart) before God, therefore how could it possibly apply to every human being who ever lived? It simply can't.

Brother Joe

 

Brother SavedbyMercy,

I am Primitive Baptist. Our views on the atonement seem to be similar (i.e. the elect actually being saved through the atonement and not through believing the gospel). Are you Primitive Baptist too?