Where do you get this nonsence.....talk about being brainwashed.........you are really text book.... :laugh:
You can get a lot of nonsense from bad exegesis.
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Where do you get this nonsence.....talk about being brainwashed.........you are really text book.... :laugh:
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:Since this is the claim that has gotten lost in the shuffle and refusing to be answered I thought I would repost it.
So who is the price being paid to? And why does the earth have to pay its own price to be redeemed?
Can anyone answer these questions instead of shuffling around?
When the curse is fully lifted, not only by the death of Christ, but also at his Coming, the curse on the earth will also be lifted.From the curse of the law - The curse which the Law threatens, and which the execution of the Law would inflict; the punishment due to sin. This must mean, that he has rescued us from the consequences of transgression in the world of woe; he has saved us from the punishment which our sins have deserved. The word, “us” here, must refer to all who are redeemed; that is, to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. The curse of the Law is a curse which is due to sin, and cannot be regarded as applied particularly to any one class of people. All who violate the Law of God, however that law may be made known, are exposed to its penalty. The word “law” here, relates to the Law of God in general, to all the laws of God made known to man. The Law of God denounced death as the wages of sin. It threatened punishment in the future world forever. That would certainly have been inflicted, but for the coming and death of Christ. The world is lying by nature under this curse, and it is sweeping the race on to ruin.
I guess most don't realize Christ must redeem all of creation and the Tribulation period is that price being paid. He came first to redeem mankind. Before Hr returns He must redeem the earth for the Kingdom.
Since this is the claim that has gotten lost in the shuffle and refusing to be answered I thought I would repost it.
So who is the price being paid to? And why does the earth have to pay its own price to be redeemed?
Can anyone answer these questions instead of shuffling around?
DHK, that does not address the claim that there is still further work to be done to Redeem the Earth.
That is revmwc claim, and so far he has refused to answer for it.
I'm not asking about man being redeemed as you seem to think, I'm asking about the claim that the earth STILL needs to be redeemed.
Why is everyone avoiding answering the question? Or I guess more specifically what is revmwc avoiding answering questions about his claim?
You can get a lot of nonsense from bad exegesis.
In answer to your question, saved people that survive the tribulationIt has been answered. The problem is that the imagery of a payment being given as would occur in a normal transaction, like someone has something and they are paid to get it back.
The "payment" is the wage of sin being exacted.
Here is an example:
Revelation 18:6-8
King James Version (KJV)
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Another would be...
Revelation 14:14-19
King James Version (KJV)
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
At the heart of the redemption of the earth is the removal of that which offends and the restoration of earth to a condition closer to the original intention of God for man.
Satan will be paid his due wage, Babylon will receive her due wage, the unbelieving of that day will receive their due wage.
But the imagery that God is "paying someone off" is foreign to the redemption that will take place at that time. I think that is what has some confused.
And speaking of unanswered questions, have you answered mine in any of the threads yet?
Who populates the Millennial Kingdom?
God bless.
Same place I get that we are not to forsake the assembling of the brethren and that persecuting the Church is persecuting Jesus Christ: the Bible.
Check it out.
And if you can muster the effort, try actually reading what the posts states, and then, if you are not overly slothful, you can point out which parts of it is nonsense.
In answer to your question, saved people that survive the tribulation![]()
Glorified or no?
God bless.
Naaaa....I work for a living so I don't have the time.
However what Ive seen from your type just aggravates me.
You do not exegete scripture properly,
Id suggest you find a church that can help you with it....then perhaps.
For now however, I will just put you on ignore.
Chao....
oh & God Bless
I don't know how Daniel got here but how does seven days become seven years in the literalism of pre-tribbers or does that title give you special dispensation-:laugh:-to interpret Scripture to suit Darby's whim? And then how does the literal hermeneutic enable you to put a 2500+ years and counting between the mid part of the 70th week and the whenever?-:laugh:-
DHK, that does not address the claim that there is still further work to be done to Redeem the Earth.
That is revmwc claim, and so far he has refused to answer for it.
I'm not asking about man being redeemed as you seem to think, I'm asking about the claim that the earth STILL needs to be redeemed.
Why is everyone avoiding answering the question? Or I guess more specifically what is revmwc avoiding answering questions about his claim?
No
Although I will be honest my views are currently in a state of flux. 10 years ago I had a very dogmatic view about eschatology but the more I have studied the Bible the less dogmatic I became on those views. These discussions the last few weeks or so may have me changing my mind about a lot if things![]()
So your saying that the earth and all the people on the earth during the tribulation have to pay the price to be redeemed? That's what it looks like you are saying, which would mean that the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ did not accomplish all of redemption and that is a huge problem.How many answers do you want for this. I answered OR and then you in post 139 DHK answered, post 147 I answered, Post 167 I answered,
Here is 167,
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldRegular View Post
So it is the earth that is punished by the Great Tribulation to make propitiation for the earth's sin. And just how did the earth sin?
"Wrong it is unregenerate men who pay the price in the Great Tribulation in order that the curse is removed. The Tribulation begins with all unregenerate humans. A multitude will be saved by the witness of the 144,000 Jewish witnesses as well as the 2 witness in the last half of the Tribulation. We see those who are beheaded for Christ during the O.T. and N.T. periods in Revelation 6:9-11 asking when those who took their blood will be judged and avenged,
9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
They must wait this little season that is the 7years of the Tribulation until all the Tribulation Saints who will be martyred have be fulfilled.
We see them avenged in Revelation 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
God seals the 144,000 so that they will not died during this time, He raises up the two witnesses and those in the Tribulation have the witness of the church prior to her removal that will lead people to Salvation.
God knows exactly how many and who will trust Christ in this dispensation of Grace and in the Tribulation. Just as He knew who would trust Christ in the O.T. and those born during the Kingdom age. Since God foreknew who would be saved He predestinated them to be adopted.
The Kingdom comes to a restored earth with all creation back to Pre-Fall state. The Tribulation accomplishes the Redwmption or Restoration of the Earth. The terms of Redemption in the seven sealed book being opened by the Kinsman redeemer and God the Father is satisfied with the meeting (payment) of the terms of Redemption of the Lost Possession.
Prior to the Kingdom and at Christ second coming unbelievers are slain as seen in Revelation 19:21 "And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
We see where they are for the 1000 year reign, Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." They were in hell until the 1000 years is over.
During the Kingdom we see this fulfilled:
Isaiah 11:1-10,
1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Who is the stem of Jesse none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.He will be on the throne in Jerusalem, all creation is restored and the Tribulation was the payment of the redemption price, just as the Kinsman redeemer laws of Israel required payment. Just as God required payment for our sins so too must the terms of redemption for the possession be met. Then the Kingdom as Described by Isaiah comes into fruition. With Christ reigning as the root or stem of Jesse.
Highlighted in red is the answer to that question.
Bottom line the same one who required a blood sacrifice for our sins and sent His Son to make the payment for our sins, is the same one who requires that His wrath be poured out upon the people of the Tribulation and the earth to meet the price of redemption. Christ met the price for the sins of the whole world, God's wrath poured out in the Tribulation will meet His requirement for the redemption price of the Earth. So who gets paid, God the Father was satisfied with the payment of the Blood of His son for our sins. So too will He be satisfied with the payment of judgment upon all the world and all of mankind in the Tribulation.
There was no answer in either of the abive posts!How many answers do you want for this. I answered OR and then you in post 139 DHK answered, post 147 I answered, Post 167 I answered,
And just how does punishing mankind redeem the earth! Jesus Christ died to redeem the Elect. Are you claiming that the death of millions of sinful mankind will redeem or cover the sins of the earth? Just where did you hear that, from the Word of Faith people such as Kenneth Copeland. Actually the above answers nothing!Here is 167,
Originally Posted by OldRegular
So it is the earth that is punished by the Great Tribulation to make propitiation for the earth's sin. And just how did the earth sin?
"Wrong it is unregenerate men who pay the price in the Great Tribulation in order that the curse is removed. The Tribulation begins with all unregenerate humans. A multitude will be saved by the witness of the 144,000 Jewish witnesses as well as the 2 witness in the last half of the Tribulation. We see those who are beheaded for Christ during the O.T. and N.T. periods in Revelation 6:9-11 asking when those who took their blood will be judged and avenged,
9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
They must wait this little season that is the 7years of the Tribulation until all the Tribulation Saints who will be martyred have be fulfilled.
We see them avenged in Revelation 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
God seals the 144,000 so that they will not died during this time, He raises up the two witnesses and those in the Tribulation have the witness of the church prior to her removal that will lead people to Salvation.
God knows exactly how many and who will trust Christ in this dispensation of Grace and in the Tribulation. Just as He knew who would trust Christ in the O.T. and those born during the Kingdom age. Since God foreknew who would be saved He predestinated them to be adopted.
The Kingdom comes to a restored earth with all creation back to Pre-Fall state. The Tribulation accomplishes the Redwmption or Restoration of the Earth. The terms of Redemption in the seven sealed book being opened by the Kinsman redeemer and God the Father is satisfied with the meeting (payment) of the terms of Redemption of the Lost Possession.
Prior to the Kingdom and at Christ second coming unbelievers are slain as seen in Revelation 19:21 "And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
We see where they are for the 1000 year reign, Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." They were in hell until the 1000 years is over.
During the Kingdom we see this fulfilled:
Isaiah 11:1-10,
1 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Who is the stem of Jesse none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.He will be on the throne in Jerusalem, all creation is restored and the Tribulation was the payment of the redemption price, just as the Kinsman redeemer laws of Israel required payment. Just as God required payment for our sins so too must the terms of redemption for the possession be met. Then the Kingdom as Described by Isaiah comes into fruition. With Christ reigning as the root or stem of Jesse.
Highlighted in red is the answer to that question.
Bottom line the same one who required a blood sacrifice for our sins and sent His Son to make the payment for our sins, is the same one who requires that His wrath be poured out upon the people of the Tribulation and the earth to meet the price of redemption. Christ met the price for the sins of the whole world, God's wrath poured out in the Tribulation will meet His requirement for the redemption price of the Earth. So who gets paid, God the Father was satisfied with the payment of the Blood of His son for our sins. So too will He be satisfied with the payment of judgment upon all the world and all of mankind in the Tribulation.
So your saying that the earth and all the people on the earth during the tribulation have to pay the price to be redeemed? That's what it looks like you are saying, which would mean that the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ did not accomplish all of redemption and that is a huge problem.
That still means Christ's death, burial and resurrection was not sufficient and that like I said is a problem.No I am saying God's judgment redeems the earth not the people.
There was no answer in either of the abive posts!
And just how does punishing mankind redeem the earth! Jesus Christ died to redeem the Elect. Are you claiming that the death of millions of sinful mankind will redeem or cover the sins of the earth? Just where did you hear that, from the Word of Faith people such as Kenneth Copeland. Actually the above answers nothing!