Featured Idioms

Hi ITL, I see you have no interest in discussing how idioms would be best handled in translations, but continue to believe ridicule of those that do is appropriate. Translations should literally present what the text (in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek) says, then footnote the possible idiomatic meaning or meanings.

 

Gee, did anyone say the principle is what they always or even usually do? Nope. The idea is what they should do. The fact that idioms are handled inconsistently supports adopting the best principle.

 

Some believe translations handle idioms "just fine." I do not, I believe even the best translations (NASB, HCSB, LEB, WEB and NET) handle idioms inconsistently. Some claim the idea of translating literally and footnoting the possible idiomatic meaning or meanings is my idea. But I have cited several different translations that occasionally do just that.

 

The principle is found in the NET, LEB, and NASB yet it is referred to as if I invented it. Twaddle

Recall I asked for an example where the principle of translating literally and footnoting the idiomatic meaning or meanings would not work. But, WOW, there are none. No need to replace the very inspired words (literally translated) with words provided by translators from their imagination.

And the lack of footnoting the idiomatic meaning is not a plus, it is a minus.

 

The principle works for these three examples, as I said before. Personal incredulity is no rebuttal.

Here is the quote from post 21 concerning 1 Sam. 10:9,

"In 1 Samueul 10:9 the NASU says that God gave Saul another heart. But the idiom means "to change one's disposition or heart attitude." The NASU did not put the "literal" in the text." ​

Thus the comment addresses what had been done by the NASB and did not address if the principle would work. So a footnote might read "another heart" possible Hebrew idiom meaning God changed his innermost attitudes.

Folks, the claim that the principle will not work has not be supported by any citation. Go figure.

 

Lets consider Ephesians 1:23. The NASB reads, "which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all."

From the prior verse the church is His body. So who would like a footnote that explains the possible meanings?

 

Did anyone suggest the principle is used consistently today? Nope

Next, according to Mr. Rippon, there are no idioms in Ephesians 1:23. Any other opinions based on published articles?

 

More you this and you that, you, you you. Idioms, by definition are usually difficult to understand because the word or words convey a meaning not related to the individual word meanings. "All in all" might mean this or that as an English idiom, but what is the idiomatic meaning, if any, in Koine Greek. Does it mean everything in every way? Or how about every individual within the whole group?

 

Some (JOJ) say scholars know many if not most of the idiomatic sayings in the bible. Thus a list could be made and the most likely meaning in modern English could be listed side by side. Next, the verses where the idiom appears in the text could be listed. Thus it would be possible to produce a translation that presented a scholarly idiomatic translation of the Bible. But it seems unlikely such a spreadsheet exists that is peer reviewed and published.

What we have now appears to be willy nilly, sometimes the idiom is translated literally, with or without footnote, sometimes idiomatically, with or without footnote, and worst of all, sometimes the idiom is translated with little regard for the literal or idiomatic meaning, i.e. something out of left field.

 

Ephesians 1:23 could be translated idiomatically as "Now the church is His body, the spiritual deity of Him fills every individual within the church." But even if that is what it means, shouldn't we stick to a literal translation and leave the commentary to the study notes?