Featured Where does faith come from? 2nd Rodeo

I Googled, that 105 had to be fun unless someone was after you.

 

They cannot unless they hear the word of God first. Romans 10:17

 

Further, the ability to respond to the word of God preached is not based on regeneration but on the work of the holy Spirit prior to regeneration. God is powerful enough to make clear the gospel in the heart of men without first regenerating him.God is that good.

 

Ok there are two things going on in that verse that you appear to be conflating:

1. washing of regeneration
2. renewing

Anyway, that is beside the point I made. That verse does not speak to where faith comes from.

 

Repost from my answer:

Faith in the sense of Salvation

Ephesians 2:8 & 9

Faith=pisteos

Thayer’s uses pistis conviction of the truth of anything, belief

Mounce states that this is firm belief

Henry=From Scripture it is clear, that whether men have been most prone to sensual or to spiritual wickedness, all men, being naturally children of disobedience, are also by nature children of wrath. What reason have sinners, then, to seek earnestly for that grace which will make them, of children of wrath, children of God and heirs of glory! God's eternal love or good-will toward his creatures, is the fountain whence all his mercies flow to us; and that love of God is great love, and that mercy is rich mercy. And every converted sinner is a saved sinner; delivered from sin and wrath. The grace that saves is the free, undeserved goodness and favour of God; and he saves, not by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. A regenerated sinner becomes a living soul; he lives a life of holiness, being born of God: he lives, being delivered from the guilt of sin, by pardoning and justifying grace. Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above this world, by Christ's grace. The goodness of God in converting and saving sinners heretofore, encourages others in after-time, to hope in his grace and mercy. Our faith, our conversion, and our eternal salvation, are not of works, lest any man should boast.

Eadie=It is the uniform doctrine of the New Testament, that no man is saved against his will; and his desire to be saved is proved by his belief of the Divine testimony. Salvation by grace is not arbitrarily attached to faith by the mere sovereign dictate of the Most High, for man's willing acceptance of salvation is essential to his possession of it, and the operation of faith is just the sinner's appreciation of the Divine mercy, and his acquiescence in the goodness and wisdom of the plan of recovery, followed by a cordial appropriation of its needed and adapted blessings, or, as Augustine tersely and quaintly phrases it-Qui creavit te sine te, non salvabit te sine te. Justification by faith alone, is simply pardon enjoyed on the one condition of taking it.

Faith in the sense of Faithfulness

Galatians 5:22

Faith=pistis=faithfulness

Thayer=2. Fidelity, Fatihfulness

Mounce uses pistis as the word but uses the definition as faithfulness

Henry=faith, fidelity, justice, and honesty, in what we profess and promise to others

Eadie=πίστις—“faith” (“faythfulnes,” Tyndale, Cranmer)-not simply faith in God in the theological sense (Jerome, Theophylact),-that being implied, as the Spirit dwells only in those who have faith,-nor merely fidelity or good faith (Meyer), nor veracity (Winer); but trust generally, trustfulness toward God and towards man. Confidence in God, in all His promises, and under all His dispensations; and a spirit of unsuspicious and generous confidence towards men,-not moved by doubts and jealousies, nor conjuring up possible causes of distrust, and treasuring up sad lessons from previous instances of broken plight. 1 Corinthians 13:7.

 

An unsaved person does not have a relationship with Christ, and indeed cannot have one. Neither does God give him the faith to have one, as he does not give his spiritual gifts to unbelievers. There is no evidence of that in Scripture. It is simply a mantra (as evidenced here) with no scriptural back up.

The relationship is with the Word, not with Christ, per se. For example, take the gospel to a Muslim. He will not be saved until he is fully convinced that the gospel is true; Christ is who he says he is (God incarnate come in the flesh, the second person of the triune Godhead, Deity and perfect humanity dying on the cross for his sins, paying a penalty that he so richly deserves, and that the Father is a personal God that can be approached, not an impersonal God that is aloof from the affairs of man). He must understand in the very least these things that all pertain to the gospel.
Thus faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. He is not going to get saved the first time he hears the gospel, as most of you did not get saved the first time you heard the gospel.
He must establish trust, confidence in this message that it is true. That is where the relationship is. That is where faith comes from. It is not from God, but from His Word, and that is what the Bible declares here.
Once he is confident of this message he can choose to put his faith in the Lord, or not. That decision is up to him. God is not going to force his hand.

 

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Does mankind have things they hope for, that is as unbelievers do they hope in something? Many have hope in a false religion. Many have hope in their works. That is faith a faith that is in every human being. Mankind has been given the ability to have Faith in something in is inherent in us all.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Yet what did God tell Cain?
Genesis 4:
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What did Christ tell Cain here?

Do good that do as Abel and have faith in me, yet Cain did not do good, Cain rejected, he refused to place his faith in Chirst. If Cain had no choice but to reject why did The Lord tell Him to do good, that to do as Abel and have Faith?

If God supplies the Faith needed for salvation and didn't supply it for Cain why did He tell Cain to do so?

If Cain had no option to do good that is to place his Faith in the Promised savior why did the Lord even bother to tell him too?

 

Cain was like every born except Christ, Totally depraved. But as we see God Tells Cain, " If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" who must make the choice here Cain or God? God will accept Cain if he makes the choice to do that which was right. What was the right thing for Cain to do? Believe and obey God, it was his decision to make and if he made the right choice by Faith, God would accept him. Cain let his totally depraved heart rule that is his old sin nature continued to dominate his life and he allowed sin to win in his life, and was rejected for it.

 

I asked you a question in a thread you closed and because of your answer to that question I know no other way way to ask this question. I know, no Greek. Also I am 73 and probably do not have 40 years ahead of me to get experience should I go to school and learn Greek. I asked an honest question.

From Blue Letter Bible.

Eph. 2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως καὶ το ῦτοοὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον --- Textus Receptus

Titus 3:5 οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων τῶν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ ὧν ἐποιήσαμεν ἡμεῖς ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸν αὐτοῦ ἔλεον ἔσωσεν ἡμᾶς διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας καὶ ἀνακαινώσεως πνεύματος ἁγίου
Textus Receptus

Do these two say the same. That is, do they tell us how we were saved or how we are saved or can be saved? Are they both the same, "saved"?

If I assume they are the same and that the passage from Eph. is the simplest form of the two: I can see saved whether the same or not in both passages. Where in Titus is the grace and where in Titus is, the faith?

I agree, I think, that saving faith, are in both.


BTW I used the TR because I believe, "τῆς" before faith is important for understanding. Is it definite? If it is, then don't one have to ask whose faith is being spoken of, your own? I believe to leave, τῆς, out then makes it, your own, where as I do not believe faith there is what comes from the man. Why did Young leave it out? It was my understanding he was interlinear to the TR?

 

A word can be definite in Greek without the article. Just FYI.