Featured Where does faith come from? 2nd Rodeo

Here is how Paul treats the OT for NT believers:

Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. - 1 Cor. 10:11

 

What you said above is classic DHK. So you have never had a stony heart? The Lord has not given you a heart of flesh? He has not put his Spirit in you?

 

You had just said in an earlier post that the answer is free will.

It's a valid question. It sort of goes along with :"What makes one to differ from another?"

That is stupid on your part DHK. Just stupid.

Utter stupidity coming from your keystrokes DHK. You are the one making completely irrational leaps --which are entirely unwarranted. None of us are saying that all should be saved. Deal with what we say. Don't go on flights of fancy.

 

I don't believe anyone is really jumping on him, but on his teachings, yes. Certainly he takes it personally, but this is a debate forum and he has stated 'If you can't take the heat...' and I can and am not offended by it. Another issue is his failure to actually address the theological rebuttals given him as he instead erects a straw man or goes ad hominem, or debates something outside the topic. That is always the easy route.

Now when the lies and all that come with them it is a right thing to jump on him about those things since he professes to being a believer. We are accountable to one another and I offer no apologies to calling him on this behavior. Address the debate in context, stay in context.

You are correct that the dispy view muddles the OT Scriptures. It appears that they take 2 Timothy 3:16 as meaning the NT Scriptures. Often times DHK rejects the usage of the OT Scriptures, and dismisses their usage, the 'imprecatory Psalm' excuse is just one example.

 

On many occasions when we declare what the Bible says then you come up with drivel about "the Calvinist's monster-God." That's when you stand on dangerous ground.

 

God is always sovereign. Man is always responsible. If God offers man a gift, and one so precious that it will save his soul and forgive his sins, it would only be proper and fitting that man should, by faith, accept that gift that he may be saved. The reception of the gift is not a work. Faith is not a work. Thus salvation is all of God. It always has been.
It has only been in recent years that faith has been redefined into "saving faith" along with a new doctrine of denying "carnal Christians" and this concept of Lordship Salvation, and the slicing and dicing of Christian vs. disciple. All of this came with the introduction of many of John MacArthur's teachings. Though not a heretic or a false teacher, he has introduced strange doctrines into the Christian faith that have led many astray. Some of these doctrines have affected the thinking of those who have been "attacking" (debating) me. For example,
Pickering explains:

2. Saving faith is more than mental assent.

A number of times, in various ways, this emphasis is given. Saving faith is "more than just understanding the facts and mentally acquiescing" (p. 31). We do not know any fundamental preachers of the gospel who would disagree with that statement. We never have heard any reputable gospel preacher ever teach otherwise. The old Scofield Bible declared that "faith is personal trust, apart from meritorious works, in the Lord Jesus Christ" (p. 1302, Scofield Bible). The Ryrie Study Bible declares, "Both Paul and James define faith as a living, productive trust in Christ" (note on James 2:14).

In this connection MacArthur laments, "Contemporary Christendom too often accepts a shallow repentance that bears no fruit" (p. 96). This theme recurs over and over again in the book. The recommended cure for this malady is to require more of the seeking sinner than the Bible requires. Instead of "merely" believing on the finished work of Christ the inquiring soul must also be willing to have Christ as Lord over every area of his life. It seems evident upon an examination of this thesis that those who espouse it are adding something to the gospel that is not in the Scriptures. Charles Ryrie was certainly on target when he wrote, "The message of faith only and the message of faith plus commitment of life cannot both be the gospel. . ." (Balancing the Christian Life, p. 170).

Haven't I been saying this all along? Faith is faith. The Bible doesn't speak of saving faith.

As he points out so clearly, people have believed what Scofield and others taught about faith (not necessarily dispensationalism, but faith) :
The old Scofield Bible declared that "faith is personal trust, apart from meritorious works, in the Lord Jesus Christ" (p. 1302, Scofield Bible). The Ryrie Study Bible declares, "Both Paul and James define faith as a living, productive trust in Christ" (note on James 2:14)

Somehow the Reformers of today have been affected by MacArthur's teaching.
Read the entire article. It will take less than five minutes.

http://rosesreasonings.blogspot.ca/2006/10/book-review-by-dr-ernest-pickering.html

 

You men have stood for truth once again and offered many helpful verses to stand against the tide of error...thanks for your solid posting !

 

Man doesn't "do"
Man doesn't have "his part"

Man has a responsibility to respond to God. When man stands before God he shall give an account of himself. He will have no excuse for not trusting Christ (Rom.1:20; Mark 1:16)
There is no "doing" in receiving Christ, in being justified by faith. both of these phrases being biblical and used in the Scripture. If God gives salvation, man needs to receive it. God will not force his salvation on any.

 

Let's consider the Scriptures instead of philosophizing.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
--Salvation sought; Salvation received through faith; salvation obtained.
God's salvation, the price paid by Christ, received in faith by the jailer. Very simple.

You simply complicate things with OT allegories. This is not NT salvation is it?

Zion is not a picture of the "church."

Not MacArthur, MacDonald nor the Bible Knowledge Commentary agree with you.
MacArthur says:
Here is another comparison with the human birth process (see Isa_13:8), intended this time to teach two lessons: (1) no birth can come until labor pains have occurred (Isa_66:7-8) and (2) when labor occurs, birth will surely follow (Isa_66:9). Cf. Jer_30:6-7; Mat_24:8; 1Th_5:3. The point is that Israel's suffering will end with a delivery! The Lord will not impose travail on the remnant without bringing them to the kingdom (Isa_66:10).

The passage is about Israel not the church.

Now back to the jailer who did what Paul told him to do and was saved; saved because he believed.

Acts 16:38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.
39 And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.
--Why didn't the magistrates trust Christ upon hearing "these words" and the events that happened?
Surely they had their opportunity! They will give account of themselves some day before God.
They were more interested in their position on earth, in their own earthly affairs than they were about God. They couldn't bother themselves with spiritual things. And so it is with so many today.

 

Here is the thing you do on regular occasion DHK. You stated faith comes from the Word of God, not from God directly. I provided solid theological evidence that this is not possible, that is, that it can come from His Word but not directly from Him. You have ignored all the evidence, which is typic al of you, then you pretend that 1) None was offered; 2) That the evidence didn't prove anything. However you do this without actually ever showing how or why it is faulty. You do not because you cannot so you take the route of denial then move into a straw man argumentation.

So here is how you did it in this area. You went from that argument to saying that I said God is the same thing as His Word, and, that the Word (Bible) is not God. Then you began to denigrate that position making pretense it were my argument. This is a deceitful and dishonest handling of what was spoken, yet this is how you react and interact in debate here. This is a well known fact and many have attempted to help you.

One last time I will offer my rebuttal. The thing is that you simply cannot and will not argue within the parameters given, nor can you disprove the position by careful exegesis, yet I will offer it one last time:

Part of the issue of DHK's misplaced theology stems from his thoughts and presuppositions on the position of man and God. It goes much deeper than this, but that is the basis.

DHK believes things come from man, such as faith. This is a subtle denial of God's omniscience but only on the surface does it appear to be subtle. When hashed out theologically, it is a fatal error. Discernment is needed to defend the faith from these false teachings; Jude 1:3, note Hebrews 5:11ff.

What he fails to realize, or at the least to utilize at all times in his theology is that God is the source of all things. All things. Not just some things. Everything. All power to live, breath, walk, think are given to man by God in this realm of time.

Since from God's Word comes faith, then that source of faith is directly from God Himself. To believe this is to hold to a consistent view of Him via the revelation of truth that all comes from Him. Doing this, preaching this is rightly dividing the Word, 2 Timothy 2:15.

DHK stated that faith comes from the Word (and I thought perhaps he was getting on the right track but that was short lived) then he undoes that belief of the truth with his presuppositions, defense of his Finney-like system by stating 'but not from God directly'. A half truth is not truth. God will not be patronized or flattered by this type of wresting of the truth He has revealed.

Everything that we have comes from God directly, and some abuse what power He has granted, by living in sinful ways, yet God even allows this.

We can do nothing without Him, we receive all things from Him; Job 1:22; Job 2:10; John 15:5; John 3:27; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Romans 10:17. There is plenty more but the fact is that it is God who is Omnipotent and Sovereign from which all these things come. For a person to deny that faith, that comes by His spoken Word, does not come from Him directly is a calamitous error and denial of truth.