Where does faith come from? 2nd Rodeo

[SovereignGrace]

You are taking scripture addressed to the Israelites and applying it to yourself.

ALL SCRIPTURE is addressed to me in some way, shape, form or fashion. I do not understand every verse in the bible, do not have an answer for every verse in the bible, and when confronted with some verse(s) I do not truly understand at that time, I'll tell you I do not know. But that statement of yours here is quite concerning to me.

"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me."[John 5:39]

What scriptures were Jesus referring to that He said testified of Him? The OT scriptures. They testified just as much to Jesus as the NT does, it is just they testified of Him coming in the flesh whereas the NT testifies to Jesus having already came as a man to die and be resurrected and His imminent return in the Cloud of Glory. But the OT is for ALL believers, not just the Jews.


All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"[2 Timothy 3:16]

The OT scriptures are just as vital to the beliver as the NT scriptures are. Please do not fracture the bible into verses for Jews and verses for christians. All scripture is vital to all believers.

 

[DHK]

Oh lawdy! You're the one that adamantly avers God can NOT save the unregenerate until they do something. You have man cooperating, helping God save themselves, not I, Monsieur.

It is God that saves.
Bro. Joseph (with your support) asks the question, why does God save one and not the others if they all hear the gospel?
I answer: Why were 10 lepers healed and only one return to give thanks and worship God. You expect me to give an answer to a question that Jesus himself doesn't answer. God knows the answer to both the question and the heart. Why are you asking me? Are you questioning his methods and plans? Or perhaps his sovereignty?
As soon as you make that irrational jump...then all should be saved, then you question God.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Part of the issue of DHK's misplaced theology stems from his thoughts and presuppositions on the position of man and God. It goes much deeper than this, but that is the basis.

DHK believes things come from man, such as faith. This is a subtle denial of God's omniscience but only on the surface does it appear to be subtle. When hashed out theologically, it is a fatal error. Discernment is needed to defend the faith from these false teachings; Jude 1:3, note Hebrews 5:11ff.

What he fails to realize, or at the least to utilize at all times in his theology is that God is the source of all things. All things. Not just some things. Everything. All power to live, breath, walk, think are given to man by God in this realm of time.

Since from God's Word comes faith, then that source of faith is directly from God Himself. To believe this is to hold to a consistent view of Him via the revelation of truth that all comes from Him. Doing this, preaching this is rightly dividing the Word, 2 Timothy 2:15.

DHK stated that faith comes from the Word (and I thought perhaps he was getting on the right track but that was short lived) then he undoes that belief of the truth with his presuppositions, defense of his Finney-like system by stating 'but not from God directly'. A half truth is not truth. God will not be patronized or flattered by this type of wresting of the truth He has revealed.

Everything that we have comes from God directly, and some abuse what power He has granted, by living in sinful ways, yet God even allows this.

We can do nothing without Him, we receive all things from Him; Job 1:22; Job 2:10; John 15:5; John 3:27; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Romans 10:17. There is plenty more but the fact is that it is God who is Omnipotent and Sovereign from which all these things come. For a person to deny that faith, that comes by His spoken Word, does not come from Him directly is a calamitous error and denial of truth.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It is God that saves.
Bro. Joseph (with your support) asks the question, why does God save one and not the others if they all hear the gospel?
I answer: Why were 10 lepers healed and only one return to give thanks and worship God. You expect me to give an answer to a question that Jesus himself doesn't answer. God knows the answer to both the question and the heart. Why are you asking me? Are you questioning his methods and plans? Or perhaps his sovereignty?
As soon as you make that irrational jump...then all should be saved, then you question God.

In other words, you have no rational answer. As BrotherJoseph already stated, with all things being equal, all unregenerate in a service that hears the same gospel message should all be saved. Yet, many die lost? So, when I asked you these..

1) were some worse sinners than the others?
2) were some hearts not as hardened as the other sinners?
3) were some smarter than others and understood the message?

I can not remember the others, so please forgive me.

But if all have the same free will, why do some use it to accept and others use it to reject Him?

Theses are questions that if someone truly delves into the bible can find out why some are saved and others are not.

Those that truly hear the gospel with the 'ears to hear with, this shows God has already acted upon them. If everybody had these ears then Jesus wasted His time stating 'let him who has ears hear'. So there were some there who lacked those ears to hear with.

 

[DHK]

ALL SCRIPTURE is addressed to me in some way, shape, form or fashion. I do not understand every verse in the bible, do not have an answer for every verse in the bible, and when confronted with some verse(s) I do not truly understand at that time, I'll tell you I do not know. But that statement of yours here is quite concerning to me.

"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me."[John 5:39]

What scriptures were Jesus referring to that He said testified of Him? The OT scriptures. They testified just as much to Jesus as the NT does, it is just they testified of Him coming in the flesh whereas the NT testifies to Jesus having already came as a man to die and be resurrected and His imminent return in the Cloud of Glory. But the OT is for ALL believers, not just the Jews.


All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"[2 Timothy 3:16]

The OT scriptures are just as vital to the beliver as the NT scriptures are. Please do not fracture the bible into verses for Jews and verses for christians. All scripture is vital to all believers.

Sure they are.
"Hath God said, he shall not eat..."
"...ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
--Were those Scriptures addressed to you as well?
--Everything has context. If the context is not known the scripture often does not make sense.
For example:

1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

BTW, just how does the above scripture apply to you?

When you take scripture that are promises to Israel and apply them to yourself I consider that just as out of context as Genesis 3:1,5--The serpent, the father of liars, speaking to Eve.

We benefit from all Scripture, but not all scripture is applicable to us.

 

[DHK]

In other words, you have no rational answer. As BrotherJoseph already stated, with all things being equal, all unregenerate in a service that hears the same gospel message should all be saved. Yet, many die lost? So, when I asked you these..

1) were some worse sinners than the others?
2) were some hearts not as hardened as the other sinners?
3) were some smarter than others and understood the message?

I can not remember the others, so please forgive me.

But if all have the same free will, why do some use it to accept and others use it to reject Him?

Theses are questions that if someone truly delves into the bible can find out why some are saved and others are not.

Those that truly hear the gospel with the 'ears to hear with, this shows God has already acted upon them. If everybody had these ears then Jesus wasted His time stating 'let him who has ears hear'. So there were some there who lacked those ears to hear with.

I gave you a rational answer and you just rejected it. Amazing. Like I said before, when I used a much stronger word, it is the equivalent of insulting God when you question his ways.

 

[SovereignGrace]

All scripture is profittable...all...unless all does not mean all.

 

[DHK]

Part of the issue of DHK's misplaced theology stems from his thoughts and presuppositions on the position of man and God. It goes much deeper than this, but that is the basis.

DHK believes things come from man, such as faith. This is a subtle denial of God's omniscience but only on the surface does it appear to be subtle. When hashed out theologically, it is a fatal error. Discenrnment is needed to defend the faith from these false teachings; Jude 1:3, note Hebrews 5:11ff.

What he fails to realize, or at the least to utilize at all times in his theology is that God is the source of all things. All things. Not just some things. Everything. All power to live, breath, walk, think are given to man by God in this realm of time.

Since from God's Word comes faith, then that source of faith is directly from God Himself. To believe this is to hold to a consistent view of Him via the revelation of truth that all comes from Him. Doing this, preaching this is rightly dividing the Word, 2 Timothy 2:15.

DHK stated that faith comes from the Word (and I thought perhaps he was getting on the right track but that was short lived) then he undoes that belief of the truth with his presuppositions, defense of his Finney-like system by stating 'but not from God directly'. A half truth is not truth. God will not be patronized or flattered by this type of wresting of the truth He has revealed.

Everything that we have comes from God directly, and some abuse what power He has granted, by living in sinful ways, yet God even allows this.

We can do nothing without Him, we receive all things from Him; Job 1:22; Job 2:10; John 15:5; John 3:27; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Romans 10:17. There is plenty more but the fact is that it is God who is Omnipotent and Sovereign from which all these things come. For a person to deny that faith, that comes by His spoken Word, does not come from Him directly is a calamitous error and denial of truth.

IT just said:
Part of the issue of DHK's ... stems from his thoughts and presuppositions on the position of man and God. It goes much deeper than this, but that is the basis....

Thank you Dr. Freud for your input. This is not a forum for Freudian view points or psychiatric analyses. You may take your philosophies and put them elsewhere.

 

[DHK]

All scripture is profittable...all...unless all does not mean all.

I agree. Does that mean it is applicable to you?
John 8:44 for example?

 

[Internet Theologian]

I gave you a rational answer and you just rejected it. Amazing. Like I said before, when I used a much stronger word, it is the equivalent of insulting God when you question his ways.

You spend much time here questioning His ways, but it doesn't end there, as you also mitigate His Authority on earth by taking passages out of context. You're so ready to do this and you do it willfully.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I gave you a rational answer and you just rejected it. Amazing. Like I said before, when I used a much stronger word, it is the equivalent of insulting God when you question his ways.

I am not questioning His ways in the least. I am giving Him all the glory for saving me. I was running from Him as fast as I could, but He saved me from myself, and I praise Him for doing it. I wanted nothing to do with Him, yet He bound me with the bands of love(a line from 'I was a wandering sheep'), and brought me gently to Himself. God did not need anything from me.

--My sins? Christ bore them upon the cross ~2,000 years ago.
--My heart? It was cold as a stone.
--My life? It was dead and satan's slave.
--My love? It was towards me.
--My will? It was bound by my fallen nature.

I had nothing to offer Him. I was hopeless and helpless. There was nothing in me of any value. Yet, God chose me and not vice versa. I praise Him for saving me without my assistance.

He has all power and is all knowing. He knows how to save without asking someone's permission and has the power to carry it out...and He does, too.

 

[DHK]

You spend much time here questioning His ways, but it doesn't end there, as you also mitigate His Authority on earth by taking passages out of context. You're so ready to do this and you do it willfully.

PLEASE!!! Take your accusatory sewage and spew it elsewhere.
We don't need it here.
If you are not here to debate, there is a door. You are welcome to leave.

 

[Internet Theologian]

IT just said:
Part of the issue of DHK's ... stems from his thoughts and presuppositions on the position of man and God. It goes much deeper than this, but that is the basis....

Thank you Dr. Freud for your input. This is not a forum for Freudian view points or psychiatric analyses. You may take your philosophies and put them elsewhere.

You've been shown your error enough times. All of it stems from your faulty understanding of doctrine, false presuppositions and other errors.

Now, nothing I said was Freudian, it was actual, tangible and experiential, and many can attest to it being a right representation of you.

It is also noted you left out the Scriptural portion that exposes your errors, and shows how and why you are in error.

 

[Internet Theologian]

PLEASE!!! Take your accusatory sewage and spew it elsewhere.
We don't need it here.
If you are not here to debate, there is a door. You are welcome to leave.

Got anything to debate, or are you going to continue to pretend what you level on others is true just because you stated it? You're crying now? after calling me 'Freudian' and telling me 'where I can put it'?

We all know what you meant by that.

Now actually go back and debate the theological framework I laid out and show where it is in error. Wrest, twist, misrepresent some more.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree. Does that mean it is applicable to you?
John 8:44 for example?

Yeppers. It shows me that I no longer belong to satan. He is not my father(by relationship) but God is.

Funny you should use this verse. I preached an sermon from Daniel 2 and the kingdom is here now and I used that verse in my sermon. Satan was our father and we his son by relationship...much like Paul was a father to Timothy via relationship. Satan was the strong man that the stronger Man(Christ) came in and cast him out and spoiled his goods. The Pharisees were sons of satan via relationship, and their evil deeds attested to that fact. God came in and overthrew satan and now is King, Father of my life.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I agree. Does that mean it is applicable to you?
John 8:44 for example?

It applies to those who practice lying, yet say they believe. John 8:30 for instance, as these are the same indicated in John 8:44.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree. Does that mean it is applicable to you?
John 8:44 for example?

You agree that all scripture is profittable but not applicable? Aren't these mutually inclusive terms. How can something be profittable and not applicable or vice versa?

 

[Internet Theologian]

You agree that all scripture is profittable but not applicable? Aren't these mutually inclusive terms. How can something be profittable and not applicable or vice versa?

Exclusive. Now, the theos pneustos that we are privileged to hold, read, preach states ALL Scripture is profitable. That doesn't mean all of it is easily understood, applied, exegeted. It also doesn't mean 2000 years after it was written one is allowed to come along and change its truth to fit his theological beliefs and undo its truths. Yet God will allow this behavior.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Exclusive. Now, the theos pneustos that we are privileged to hold, read, preach states ALL Scripture is profitable. That doesn't mean all of it is easily understood, applied, exegeted. It also doesn't mean 2000 years after it was written one is allowed to come along and change its truth to fit his theological beliefs and undo its truths. Yet God will allow this behavior.

What I meant was that if something is profittable to me it is also applicable to me, and vice versa. So shouldn't they be mutually inclusive...in other words...one hand washes the other?

 

[Internet Theologian]

What I meant was that if something is profittable to me it is also applicable to me, and vice versa. So shouldn't they be mutually inclusive...in other words...one hand washes the other?

Gotcha, my fault brother!