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Featured No one deserved to be saved. Why the angst with Particular redemption?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SovereignGrace, Apr 10, 2016.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it is not what he is espousing.This is what Calvinists do set up these false dichotomy's as if there are only two options. It is never the case and Calvinists do not have deducing skills as good as they think they do. What you end up doing is misrepresenting others and creating strawmen so you can knock them down.

    What you need to stop doing is telling others hatt they are saying or what they mean. Listen to what they say they are saying and what they say they mean and then go back that. Disagree with their words but do not create your own set of words for them and then disagree with it.

    No one needs you to tell then what they have said.
     
    #101 Revmitchell, Apr 15, 2016
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ok I will try one more time. Where did he use those words?
     
    #102 Revmitchell, Apr 15, 2016
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He did not say them ver batim. But the unregenerate can not believe in God, seeing they hate Him.
     
    #103 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Look...I know that system inside-out, and upside-down. I avered it for years. I believed much of what he is espousing for years. That's why I know his beliefs.
     
    #104 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The Dead cannot understand spiritual things, however to believe on the Lord Jesus just takes the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, who says come and the church says come. When they hear the word mixed with the conviction of the Holy Spirit they believe and call or they reject, they who answer the call can then begin to grow into maturity. Once they have been made alive through belief they can then begin to understand but only the milk until they grow into maturity. Problem is their are a lot of babies who have been saved for quite a few years. Paul said that about the Corinthian believers.
     
    #105 revmwc, Apr 15, 2016
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I don't care what you think you know. You do not get to speak for someone else. When communicating someone else's beliefs you use their words not your biased characterization. That is what it is a biased characterization. It is not accurate and it is not real. Most importantly it is not honest.
     
    #106 Revmitchell, Apr 15, 2016
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Then there we have it. You have lied about him.

    That is your doctrine not God's.
     
    #107 Revmitchell, Apr 15, 2016
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Correct. Why can't they understand Spiritual things? They're Spiritually discerned.

    And when the Spirit says 'come' in an effectual manner, they will come. He effectually draws all the Father's sheep. And those He effectually draws have exercising belief.

    It is always up to man and not God with you, ain't it?? Why??????

    They having belief shows a regeneration that has ALREADY taken place. They are made alive and then believe. Were Lazarus in John 11, the widow's son in Luke 7, the widow's son in 1 Kings 17, the valley of very dry bones in Ezekiel 37, Tabitha in Acts 9, active in themselves being brought back to life? No. These are all examples of the dead in sins spirit of man being brought back to life. This is regeneration. After regeneration, and not before, they exercise faith and choose God, and not before.

    Oh lawd!! You really need to quit patting man on the back.
     
    #108 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I did not lie. Time for you to go in the 'ignore zone'. But keep up the good work!!
     
    #109 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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  10. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Yep but mitchelle won't concede, and I wouldn't worry about that at all.
     
    #110 Internet Theologian, Apr 15, 2016
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  11. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Nope.

    No, it's God's doctrine. It's completely biblical.
     
    #111 Internet Theologian, Apr 15, 2016
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  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He's on ignore now.

    Look, a person can say something w/o saying it ver batim. If those who are dead in Adam can believe, then they are not dead, correct? Now, the word 'dead'/nekros gets mitigated to meaning separated from God. Yeah. Just like me being separated from O2 causes me to die.
     
    #112 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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  13. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Same here, he brings nothing biblical to the table. Same stuff, different day.
     
    #113 Internet Theologian, Apr 15, 2016
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  14. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you hate Him? You were once dead in trespasses and sins. When did you stop hating Him? When did He regenerate you? And why did He choose you over one of those who will face Him having lived righteously? What made Him choose you?
     
    #114 revmwc, Apr 15, 2016
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You will have to ask Him. All He will say is:

    Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

    Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
     
    #115 TCassidy, Apr 15, 2016
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  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely, I hated Him. I may not have went around and said it, but by my deeds I hated Him, because I was serving Satan.

    Yes.

    When He quickened me. When He showed me my sin and the result of unrepented sins. I saw Him in a way I never did before. He bestowed His love to me and saved me.

    Right before I believed.

    That is His to know. I have zero clue why He chose me. There was nothing about me that deserved Him to love me. I am just thankful He did...and still does. Wow!
     
    #116 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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  17. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 5:8 maybe?
     
    #117 Internet Theologian, Apr 15, 2016
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  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning:
    Sometime after 11 PM Pacific this thread will be closed.
     
    #118 Squire Robertsson, Apr 15, 2016
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Let me clarify something Brother mwc.

    You asked me when was I regenerated and I said right before I was saved. Now, many have said that regeneration happens at the same time of conversion(I lean this way), but many also say one can be regenerated for a long time before being saved. I can see where both views gain their traction. So, even though I believe I was regenerated right before He saved me, I honestly don't know. Did you know the very moment you were physically born?
     
    #119 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But what if someone has already kept their own heart pure? Hmmmmm?
     
    #120 SovereignGrace, Apr 15, 2016
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