No one deserved to be saved. Why the angst with Particular redemption?

[Revmitchell]

He says we are regenerated after we believe. He is saying that Nicodemus had to do the same thing. By deduction, that is what he is espousing.

No it is not what he is espousing.This is what Calvinists do set up these false dichotomy's as if there are only two options. It is never the case and Calvinists do not have deducing skills as good as they think they do. What you end up doing is misrepresenting others and creating strawmen so you can knock them down.

What you need to stop doing is telling others hatt they are saying or what they mean. Listen to what they say they are saying and what they say they mean and then go back that. Disagree with their words but do not create your own set of words for them and then disagree with it.

No one needs you to tell then what they have said.

 

[Revmitchell]

He said we were dead in Adam. I agree with that. He then turned around and said after we believe, we are regenerated. The dead can not believe the things of God because they are Spiritually understood, and they don't want to, seeing the dead in sins hate Him. Romans 8:7 & 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Ok I will try one more time. Where did he use those words?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ok I will try one more time. Where did he use those words?

He did not say them ver batim. But the unregenerate can not believe in God, seeing they hate Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No it is not what he is espousing.This is what Calvinists do set up these false dichotomy's as if there are only two options. It is never the case and Calvinists do not have deducing skills as good as they think they do. What you end up doing is misrepresenting others and creating strawmen so you can knock them down.

What you need to stop doing is telling others hatt they are saying or what they mean. Listen to what they say they are saying and what they say they mean and then go back that. Disagree with their words but do not create your own set of words for them and then disagree with it.

No one needs you to tell then what they have said.

Look...I know that system inside-out, and upside-down. I avered it for years. I believed much of what he is espousing for years. That's why I know his beliefs.

 

[revmwc]

He said we were dead in Adam. I agree with that. He then turned around and said after we believe, we are regenerated. The dead can not believe the things of God because they are Spiritually understood, and they don't want to, seeing the dead in sins hate Him. Romans 8:7 & 1 Corinthians 2:14.

The Dead cannot understand spiritual things, however to believe on the Lord Jesus just takes the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, who says come and the church says come. When they hear the word mixed with the conviction of the Holy Spirit they believe and call or they reject, they who answer the call can then begin to grow into maturity. Once they have been made alive through belief they can then begin to understand but only the milk until they grow into maturity. Problem is their are a lot of babies who have been saved for quite a few years. Paul said that about the Corinthian believers.

 

[Revmitchell]

Look...I know that system inside-out, and upside-down. I avered it for years. I believed much of what he is espousing for years. That's why I know his beliefs.

I don't care what you think you know. You do not get to speak for someone else. When communicating someone else's beliefs you use their words not your biased characterization. That is what it is a biased characterization. It is not accurate and it is not real. Most importantly it is not honest.

 

[Revmitchell]

He did not say them ver batim.

Then there we have it. You have lied about him.

But the unregenerate can not believe in God, seeing they hate Him.

That is your doctrine not God's.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Dead cannot understand spiritual things,

Correct. Why can't they understand Spiritual things? They're Spiritually discerned.

however to believe on the Lord Jesus just takes the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, who says come and the church says come.

And when the Spirit says 'come' in an effectual manner, they will come. He effectually draws all the Father's sheep. And those He effectually draws have exercising belief.

When they hear the word mixed with the conviction of the Holy Spirit they believe and call or they reject, they who answer the call can then begin to grow into maturity.

It is always up to man and not God with you, ain't it?? Why??????

Once they have been made alive through belief they can then begin to understand but only the milk until they grow into maturity.

They having belief shows a regeneration that has ALREADY taken place. They are made alive and then believe. Were Lazarus in John 11, the widow's son in Luke 7, the widow's son in 1 Kings 17, the valley of very dry bones in Ezekiel 37, Tabitha in Acts 9, active in themselves being brought back to life? No. These are all examples of the dead in sins spirit of man being brought back to life. This is regeneration. After regeneration, and not before, they exercise faith and choose God, and not before.

Problem is their are a lot of babies who have been saved for quite a few years. Paul said that about the Corinthian believers.

Oh lawd!! You really need to quit patting man on the back.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then there we have it. You have lied about him.



That is your doctrine not God's.

I did not lie. Time for you to go in the 'ignore zone'. But keep up the good work!!

 

[Internet Theologian]

He did not say them ver batim. But the unregenerate can not believe in God, seeing they hate Him.

Yep but mitchelle won't concede, and I wouldn't worry about that at all.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Then there we have it. You have lied about him.

Nope.

That is your doctrine not God's.

No, it's God's doctrine. It's completely biblical.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yep but mitchelle won't concede, and I wouldn't worry about that at all.

He's on ignore now.

Look, a person can say something w/o saying it ver batim. If those who are dead in Adam can believe, then they are not dead, correct? Now, the word 'dead'/nekros gets mitigated to meaning separated from God. Yeah. Just like me being separated from O2 causes me to die.

 

[Internet Theologian]

I did not lie. Time for you to go in the 'ignore zone'. But keep up the good work!!

Same here, he brings nothing biblical to the table. Same stuff, different day.

 

[revmwc]

I did not lie. Time for you to go in the 'ignore zone'. But keep up the good work!!

Didn't you hate Him? You were once dead in trespasses and sins. When did you stop hating Him? When did He regenerate you? And why did He choose you over one of those who will face Him having lived righteously? What made Him choose you?

 

[TCassidy]

Didn't you hate Him? You were once dead in trespasses and sins. When did you stop hating Him? When did He regenerate you? And why did He choose you over one of those who will face Him having lived righteously? What made Him choose you?

You will have to ask Him. All He will say is:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Didn't you hate Him?

Absolutely, I hated Him. I may not have went around and said it, but by my deeds I hated Him, because I was serving Satan.

You were once dead in trespasses and sins.

Yes.

When did you stop hating Him?

When He quickened me. When He showed me my sin and the result of unrepented sins. I saw Him in a way I never did before. He bestowed His love to me and saved me.

When did He regenerate you?

Right before I believed.

And why did He choose you over one of those who will face Him having lived righteously? What made Him choose you?

That is His to know. I have zero clue why He chose me. There was nothing about me that deserved Him to love me. I am just thankful He did...and still does. Wow!

 

[Internet Theologian]

Didn't you hate Him? You were once dead in trespasses and sins. When did you stop hating Him? When did He regenerate you? And why did He choose you over one of those who will face Him having lived righteously? What made Him choose you?

Matthew 5:8 maybe?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning:
Sometime after 11 PM Pacific this thread will be closed.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Absolutely, I hated Him. I may not have went around and said it, but by my deeds I hated Him, because I was serving Satan.


Yes.


When He quickened me. When He showed me my sin and the result of unrepented sins. I saw Him in a way I never did before. He bestowed His love to me and saved me.


Right before I believed.



That is His to know. I have zero clue why He chose me. There was nothing about me that deserved Him to love me. I am just thankful He did...and still does. Wow!

Let me clarify something Brother mwc.

You asked me when was I regenerated and I said right before I was saved. Now, many have said that regeneration happens at the same time of conversion(I lean this way), but many also say one can be regenerated for a long time before being saved. I can see where both views gain their traction. So, even though I believe I was regenerated right before He saved me, I honestly don't know. Did you know the very moment you were physically born?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Matthew 5:8 maybe?

But what if someone has already kept their own heart pure? Hmmmmm?