Featured If Adam Hadn't Sinned...

re-deem means more than purchase of a new item but to regain possession .
Reconcile has a previous relationship as well. One cannot reconcile with a new friend .

All that was created could exist in Heaven, Sin even first existed in Heaven. No redemption in Heaven though, It could not because there is no "kinship" of the created beings. There is no brotherhood.
Only those who sinned need redemption, Redemption , by one for many, could only occurr in a physical world where flesh and blood exist and are shared by sinners.

So the only reason the physical world exists is redemption, everything else could or did occur in Heaven

 

I got Romans.

It is very dangerous of you to develop doctrine solely from an English translation. Especially compounded with Humanism . Do you not understand inherited sin is a trick of the devil that ultimately reduces to blaming God for your sinful state?



Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


When did they know GOD?

 

="TomLaPalm,

Friend...if you had romans you would not question the teaching.

So....if that is so, give me a translation that you believe captures these passages more accurately...let's see what you have got!CautiousCautiousCautious I think you are bluffing...Sneaky

This is borderline incoherent. Who mentioned humanism at all?Cautious

This shows you do not understand Romans yet...sorry but you are grasping at the proverbial straws

Before the flood men had a knowledge of God but turned to idolatry as they were dead in Adam.

 

The verses says sinners knew God. A relationship, Previously

You mentioned Humanism , but you didn't know it.

Humanism, or placing undue importance on the human experience over the spiritual , is throughout translations. You dwell in it by blaming Adam for your sinful state. It is a deception .

Blaming Adam for our sin is plainly contradicts Ezekiel 18

Here is where man blames God

Eze 18:25
Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

Eze 18:30¶
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turnyourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.


Compare the English, Young's Literal Translation or read the NT direct (literal) Greek or Aramaic, not the reverse interlinear either. It is difficult (for me at least) but very rewarding.

 

"TomLaPalm,

yes...before the flood

.
no...not at all

nonsense

you do not understand ezk 18

I do not blame God at all.

these verses have no bearing on this discussion

That is till english...it just places the word order more as the greek text does.

yes...so you show me from the greek how romans 3;23 does not teach what i declared it does.

 

When ppl stray from the Federal Headship of Adam, doctrines run amuck. Such an example is in this thread now.

 

Why did you disagree,.Jon? Look at TLP's stance. It is off the rails, theologically speaking.

 

TLP's posts prove otherwise.

 

I am not question the teaching from God's Word at all. I do strongly question man 's misinterpretation of the meaning and the willingness to choose man's opinions over clear scripture.

is it your position Ezekial 18 is wrong?

 

yes, I believe the federal headship of Adam is a minor error compared to the most important point., It is difficult to measure to whom I am responding .

But let us try, Consider if "THE souls of MEN are the fallen elohyim. or "angels". We are the bad guys in the Bible narrative and that Humanity is the method of redemption

Consider, the expulsion, the necessity of the physical world, and the method of redemption , Purpose for Israel, even Scripture etc. if the statement is true

I know with your knowledge of Scripture you can think about this scenario i objectively in detail . You may find an possible error I cannot overcome

 

I did not say ezk was wrong....I said your understanding of it as a contradiction to Paul in Romans is a falsehood. You misunderstand both verses, you fail to grasp the implications of the fall and it's lasting effects on man.
Until you understand this accurately, you will not properly understand the gospel as it is linked by the Holy Spirit in Romans 5.

 

This is unbiblical nonsense. It is non christian mythology....this is all that is lefty when you depart from scripture.