Preterism - True Or false?

I see so many men have answered you so well, I'll not continue. I guess I'm a 'Johnny come lately' here. I will say, and I don't mean this in a nasty way. I've spent time debating a couple of WatchTower men lately. Sadly, I find most Dispensationalists argue in the same manner as the JWs. Maybe it is just common among the heresies and cults that popped up in the 19th century.

 

I tend to the view that God's dealings with Israel as a nation ended with the destruction. They were declared "uncircumcised" by Stephen speaking in the power of the Holy Spirit, & the Gospel was soon after opened to uncircumcised Gentiles, both events at the conclusion of the 70 weeks.

According to Paul the wrath of God on them was to the uttermost. 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 Whatever those calling themselves Jews, & maintaining a form of the religion did after that was of no concern to God, apart from welcoming them by the Gospel on an individual basis.

Persecution of Jews by the churches is utterly abhorrent & totally contrary to the Gospel, as is the genocide being practised by the nation calling itself 'Israel' against the Palestinians.

Family records were destroyed in the destruction & there are serious doubts about whether the Ashkenazi Jews of Northern Europe are Semitic, descendants of Abraham. Genesis 10:2-3

 

I haven't put much thought into this but I understand where you're coming from. But compare these passages with the Jewish Virtual Library article of their emancipation I linked:

64 And Jehovah will scatter thee among all peoples, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, and there shall be no rest for the sole of thy foot: but Jehovah will give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and pining of soul; Dt 28

For some reason the Jews consider themselves as having been emancipated from a very long period of bondage. Why is that?

 

I've got your back RC3 - glad you call their doctrine "phony" not the people themselves.

Acts 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

HankD

 

I have researched this as well. I am of Jewish descent on my mother's side. Her mother (my grandmother) was Jewish and immigration records show she was from the area of Prussia (and married my maternal Italian grandfather here in America) which would probably make me of Ashkenazim descent on my mother's side. The rest of me is of Italian extraction Oy vey/Mama mia .

DNA results cannot distinguish Ashkenazim from Sephardim (or so I have read).

But what difference does it make spiritually for those who have been BORN AGAIN and thereby citizens by birthright of the New Jerusalem?

Nothing.

HankD

 

The second coming is the blessed hope of the Christian and the Church, so what do we have if already happened?

 

Partial version of it is allowed to be held, but it is really not to be seen as being a preferred viewpoint, but full blown version of it is heresy!

 

We hear this so often. Granted - please address the point of misunderstanding.

My presumption is that partial preterists believe Jesus will come at the end of everything and usher us into the eternal state (or so I have read in my research and questioning partial preterists).

To just make this statement accusing someone of misunderstanding seems to me to be a ploy.

Prove me wrong and explain one point of misunderstanding made by robycop3.

That way we can address it with some understanding of which you have contributed.

HankD

 

I agree with you - the idea that God has in effect been punishing the Jews for the last 2,000 years - 60 generations, until Jesus returns, is utterly repugnant. Likewise church persecution of Jews.

We tend to forget that many thousands of Jews responding to the Gospel during the Acts period, and these Jews formed the Church. Within a generation of so the unity of Jew & Gentile in Christ would have resulted in intermarriage, & no continuation of "Messianic Jews."

 

OK Y. Why do you label full preterism as heresy?

While they do not endorse the visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ they do believe in His second coming as happening AD70.

Apart from the doctrinal issues we have as futurists why is their belief "heresy"?

Just curious.

HankD

 

So when peter and paul both stated that God will deal again with israel once the time of the Gentiles id fulfilled, they were mistaken? As both held that when israel was restored back to God, how much greater than when gentiles were grafted in, as the jews are the natural vines?

What is the Day of the Lord and Time of Jacobs folly for israel than?

 

They deny the physical resurrection of the saints, and deny a literal second coming, as they see it as a spiritual coming, almost like JW do!

 

And I agree with you but most of us are reluctant to make that claim for fear of being antisemitic.

The wrath of God is by no means exclusive to Jews but EVERY human being who believes not on Jesus Christ.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Those who have persecuted and murdered Jews (or any sector of humanity) have proven by their deeds that they themselves believe not but are of their father the devil.

HankD

 

Yes, they do deny a physical resurrection of our own bodies as Tom Asterisk had explained to me years ago.

But MANY, even in the regular denominations, hold that the resurrection of the body is the obtaining of a spiritual body not a literal body which will come up out of their earthen graves. As a former Catholic this was also what I was led to believe.

Also many in the regular denominations as well as Catholicism know not of the literal, bodily return of Jesus Christ.

HankD

 

-bump-

 

To deny that there was a literal and physical second coming, and to deny the physical resurrection is heresy.

 

I prefer to say that they are mistaken.

HankD

 

How about Zechariah 14!?

Verses 3 & 4 clearly show His visible and bodily return to the Mount of Olives from whence He left and angels promised His return:

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day Which is known to the LORD -- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.
8 And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur.

HankD