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Featured Arminianism and Calvinism part 2

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    That may be possible in some cases. But the majority of these people attend these types of churches, affirm the Apostles Creed, repeat the Lord's prayer, have Christ icons in their church, get baptized, take communion, say prayers to Jesus, they are most definitely seeking the God of the Bible and Jesus.

    It flat out contradicts the Calvinist's interpretation of Psalm 14:2.

    How do you reconcile that?
     
    #41 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Just not a fan of reading the Yiddish Long Translation.
     
    #42 MennoSota, Aug 10, 2017
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Well, I am. I know it's rough but you'll just have to deal with it. :)

    KJV,ASV, and YLT are the three I reference most.
     
    #43 kyredneck, Aug 10, 2017
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You are the synergist. Proof of it is all these post having no confidence that the word of God can speak for itself.
    "Synergist and monergist" are Calvinist made up terms, Christians never describe themselves by those terms.


    I can 100% quote scripture and say it means what it says, without any comment and a person will get it.

    No body discovers Calvinism on their own. Even John Calvin interprets it from what people of the past thought.

    No one reads scripture comes to a Calvinist conclusion then says wow well where is the Calvinist church where are the guys who believe what I believe?

    No its always some uneducated reeled in by someone else.

    What a person reads:

    Romans 10:10

    10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


    What a Calvinist teaches:

    Romans 10:10
    10for with the heart a person believes, after he is made righteous, and with the mouth he confesses, after salvation.


    One of those lines above is the holy scripture with the TRUE ORDER of things. The other is FALSE a LIE, not found in the holy bible.
     
    #44 utilyan, Aug 10, 2017
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You believe everyone deserves hell, so you made God in your image.

    How about letting God speak for himself rather then you putting together your own judgement?

    Show us a bible verse where God declares "all deserve hell."

    You don't have one because you worship a graven image of yourself.
     
    #45 utilyan, Aug 10, 2017
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Many of them are doing works that will not merit eternal life. They are still in heart rebellion and superstition.....still lost....
     
    #46 Iconoclast, Aug 10, 2017
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Kyredneck... You just stirred me up!... AMEN BROTHER!... Brother Glen:Thumbsup
     
    #47 tyndale1946, Aug 10, 2017
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    True, but we can not read more than is there.
    It does not say all that God draws will come. Irresistable grace, though I know it is not your term of choice, is my only major hang up with Calvinism. If I resolved it, the minor hang ups with election would fall into place.
     
    #48 Reynolds, Aug 10, 2017
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we not all sinners? Does not sin make us guilty before Holy God?
     
    #49 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Simple. Let God (and His word) be true and every man a liar.

    They are not seeking the True God of the bible nor are they seeking the true salvation of the bible. They are seeking a god made in their own image who will save them according to their will.
     
    #50 TCassidy, Aug 10, 2017
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  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Efficacious grace. What part of God's Grace is a failure? What is it that God wants to accomplish but just can't seem to get it done?
     
    #51 TCassidy, Aug 10, 2017
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  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Is the Father "giving" the same as The Father "drawing"? Does He draw some that do not respond and thus are not given?
    No part of God's grace is a failure. If He offers that grace as irresistable, then it would fail if the person successfully resisted it. That's the point. I am not convinced that He offers it as irresistable. A local pastor I know recently said "God is sovereign. In His sovereignty, He could make a sovereign decision to offer a resistable invitation of grace to a sinner." Honestly, I don't know.
     
    #52 Reynolds, Aug 10, 2017
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    They are seeking God. And not any God, but the one true God of the Bible. This contradicts the Calvinist assertion that "no one seeks God."
     
    #53 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2017
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Sure they are. They are wrong on soteriology, but they are seeking Jesus.
     
    #54 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It seems to me they are.

    All that He draws come.

    I agree.

    I am not sure what you mean by "He offers that grace as irresistable." His Grace is sufficient. His Grace never fails (as you stated above). I have no idea what you mean by "He offers that grace as irresistable." His Grace is His Grace. If it fails to accomplish that which He intended it to accomplish either He is not God or His Grace is not His Grace.

    Sorry, but you are not making any sense. What do you mean by "He offers it as irresistable." What is not efficacious about efficacious Grace?

    That is why I am trying to help.

    I asked you a couple questions several posts ago, whether you were a pastor and if you are seminary trained. You did not answer either question. The questions were not merely out of curiosity. The answers would affect how I answer your questions. :)
     
    #55 TCassidy, Aug 10, 2017
  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    It's perfectly fine that you use it. I'll just have to scrounge around to find my "How to translate Yiddish to English" dictionary.
     
    #56 MennoSota, Aug 10, 2017
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Are they seeking the true God of the Bible or the god of their denomination? There are many who come out of curiosity. Remember Paul at Athens when he was brought before the Aeropagus. Those who were curious were not seeking...other than to increase their own selfish pride about what they knew.
    Many atheists know the Bible better than church goers. That doesn't mean they seek God.
     
    #57 MennoSota, Aug 10, 2017
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    The God of the Bible. Jesus of Nazareth. The Alpha and Omega. The Lamb of God.

    These people go to church weekly. They have Bibles. They are baptized. They take communion. They bring their children up in the church. They are not merely "curious".

    When visitors come to your church would you say they are not seeking God?



    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #58 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2017
  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Satan knows God as the God of the Bible, Jesus of Nazareth. The Alpha and Omega. The Lamb of God.
    Just knowing doesn't mean seeking.
    Just going to church doesn't mean seeking. Taking communion doesn't mean seeking. Bringing kids to church doesn't mean seeking.
    When visitors cone to my church I would say they are curious to see if they would like my church. That curiosity does not equal seeking God. Many people come to church out of curiosity and to feed their own ego, not because they are drawn by God.
    I went to Fountain Street Baptist church in Grand Rapids, MI one Sunday to hear a liberal pastor named Duncan Littlefair. He gave the gospel. Stopped. Took his Bible and threw it at the wall and began to tell everyone what a pile of **** that message was. He went on a profanity laced tirade condemning Calvinists and all who preach the gospel. His church was full. Shortly afterward the church became a Unitarian/Universalist church.
    So...going to church has no correlation to knowing whom God is urging to seek him.
     
    #59 MennoSota, Aug 10, 2017
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    How many words and phrases do Calvinist's need to redefine and parse in order to make reality squeeze into their theology?

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.
     
    #60 InTheLight, Aug 10, 2017
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