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Why James White Is Sick of The Calvinist Club

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Dec 13, 2017.

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  1. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Who exactly are these "Truly Reformed" guys he's so upset at? Is this part of his spat with J.D. Hall of Reformation Montana?
     
    #81 Jerome, Feb 6, 2018
  2. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Adam's rebellion isn't a result of the fall, it is the fall.

    The Archangel
     
    #82 The Archangel, Feb 6, 2018
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam was not a sinner when created, but all save Jesus are when born!
     
    #83 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Adam and Eve became as Satan did after He fell, their own little "gods"
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    What sin did we commit before we committed a sin?

    On a more personal note, if you are willing, please tell us what sin you committed against God before or as you were being born.
     
    #85 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as thru His one act of disobedience all of creation, especially Mankind. was ruined forward!
     
    #86 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We all were judged in Adam as now being found guilty, and all received a sin nature when conceived....
     
    #87 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that we were all judged "in Adam", and that through him sin entered the world and spread to all mankind for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But where is the support for the idea that we received a sin nature when conceived (as opposed to a human nature, which Christ also shared)?
     
    #88 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are born physically into Adam, and thus receive His sin nature sin, while Jesus bypassed that by Holy Spirit conception!
     
    #89 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ah....philosophical biology. Do you believe that Mary was sinless?
     
    #90 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, but the humanity of Jesus came from Mary, but the Virgin Birth allowed Jesus to not be conceived as a sinner....
     
    #91 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Agreed. His decrital will must be understood to be very different from his permissive will.
     
    #92 TCassidy, Feb 6, 2018
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  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Except not a single one here agrees with you.
     
    #93 TCassidy, Feb 6, 2018
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  14. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Romans 5

    [12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—[13] for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. [14] Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (Romans 5:12–14 ESV)​

    Paul's whole point is that people who broke no law(s) and therefore technically committed no sin(s) still died. If your idea is correct (we don't have a sin nature), then no pre-born or just-born baby should ever die since "the wages of sin is death." Since babies do die (tragically) and since people between Adam and Moses' law died, we clearly see we have the Adamic nature, a sin nature.

    The Archangel
     
    #94 The Archangel, Feb 6, 2018
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So sin is passed along through male organic materials? Are you sure?
     
    #95 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sin actual is "passed" by God, as when conception occurs, the soul is created By God, and the human being is a sinner in nature even then...
     
    #96 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Absolutely. I've made the same point on other threads. Technically there were no transgressors like Adam and Israel (from Moses forward). Yet we are all slaves to sin and death. This is not a "sin nature" but a human nature under the headship of Adam. Christ was made flesh, in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was tempted, yet without sin. We are tempted by what is in our nature. Jesus was tempted by what was in His nature (as a man). This is not sin. Sin is a matter of the will, not the nature.

    There is no passage of Scripture that states Adam's nature changed before, after, or during the Fall. Rather, James tells us we are tempted by things of the flesh and when we give in to this temptation sin is birthed. As you so aptly put it, when we put our desires...ourselves....in the place of God or God's will this is rebellion and sin.
     
    #97 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
  18. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Ok. Thank you.
     
    #98 delizzle, Feb 6, 2018
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was as Adam at His creation, as Jesus had no sin nature, as he had sinless perfect Humanity... NONE of us can claim that, as He was made in our likeness, but not our sameness...
     
    #99 Yeshua1, Feb 6, 2018
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So you do believe God authors sin? I think you may change your mind if you consider the words of James.

    We are tempted by things we desire. When we are carried away in our lusts sin is birthed. It is acting on our desires (on the desires of the flesh) rather than submitting to the will of God. Jesus was tempted to eat during a fast. This would have been a sin as it would have been giving in to temptation over the will of God. But Jesus did not act on this desire.
     
    #100 JonC, Feb 6, 2018
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