The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

The text does not say anything about "eternal punishing" in those texts.

It says the "the smoke goes up" forever.
It says the "devil, the beast and the false prophet" tormented ...

The devil who is 'reduced to ashes' - and "will be no more" -- ceases to be forever.

IS 34:9-11(NASB)
Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
11 But pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of desolation
And the plumb line of emptiness.

(KVJ)
9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.



Rev 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Jude 7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


2 Peter 2:6
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of

Ezek 28
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

 

You never quote scripture saying that "punishing is eternal" or "forever incomplete".

Rather we see that even the devil is "reduced to ashes" so also Sodom and Gomorrah after being burned by "eternal fire" are reduced to ashes.

Bible details matter even in cases where you want to falsely accuse others of being in a cult

 

Heaven and hell are BOTH given to us as being eternal in time duration though.....

 

The reply you gave was in direct response to a post by brother BobRyan, wherein my name One Baptism was not mentioned at all, yes or no? - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

I also think you have a great misconception about me in my position. Never-the-less ... can we please stick to the OP?

 

Brother BobRyan's original response here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Smoke goeth up [distance and not time] here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...
​

Passages on the destruction/annihilation of the wicked into smoke and ashes, not to be any more here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Hebrew and Greek from Strong's teaching annihilation here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Summation of righteous living in eternal fire, while wicked cease to be, cannot stand in the fiery presence of God which fills the whole New Heavens and earth here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Baptists, Old and New [Modern] teaching annihilation and soul sleep here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

"... εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων ..." here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Worm dieth not here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here [quench] - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here quench [and finale] - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

Carcase 1 here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Carcase 2 here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Difference between suffering/torment [limited] and death [eternal] here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

Archaic words and the KJB here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Your objections utilizing those two texts are clearly no real objections to accepting the facts of the case at hand for the scriptural [KJB] doctrine of annihilation of the wicked, and the limited duration of the wicked's torment, and their final and eternal reward of the 2nd death, from which there is no life, nor resurrection to be had from.

What have I [we] not addressed that concerns you? Please speak of it/them with clarity.

I do feel that I have asked many questions of yourself, and of the text, and while I have received answers from the text, I did not receive all of the answers from you. My questions are not offensive, nor designed to injure any, but are simply questions about location, duration, etc.

 

Yes brother robycop3, the "punishment" is indeed "eternal". For the "wages of sin is death", that being the "second death".

The "torment", or the "suffering" unto that death, is limited. The suffering or torment is not eternal, as I have shown in the case of Jesus Christ, who took upon Himself the sins of the whole world. His suffering though tremendous, more than any other could endure [for just our own sins would crush us], and yet, it was limited. Hence the phrase, "once suffered", meaning it is in the past, and is over and done with, thus it was limited in time.

The "tolerable" portion deals with the "torment" and knowledge, and the length/duration and severity unto the death, because of the light they [Chorazin, Bethsaida, etc] had received and rejected. John 1:1-11 KJB, reveals Jesus Christ coming unto His own in person, in the fallen sinful flesh of mankind, remained sinless, and yet they rejected Jesus to His face. Sodom and Gomorah had not face to face rejected Jesus Christ, nor been directly witness to the miracles which He did by the Father, through the Holy Spirit, though they had some evidence through Abraham, and even Lot. Thus Sodom and Gomorrah had less light, than did they in the days of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:17 KJB - For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
​

The greater the light sent, and rejected, the greater the torment and anguish for having rejected it:

Luke 12:47 KJB - And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Luke 12:48 KJB - But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.​

 

Which is not the same thing. Punishment is final and eternal if it utterly wipes something out. "Punishing is eternal" if the thing is never destroyed - never wiped out -- given eternal life -- so that you can have unending eternal punishing forever incomplete.. forever stalled at it's incomplete state and so continuing in punishing.

You can argue against that FACTS stated in those verses til yer keyboard melts, but it won't change a thing.

Those verses say what they say, and are what they are.

 

Again, how would there be real differences int e degrees of punishment Jesus told us would be even in Hell, if all there simply smoked away?

 

Did the global flood of Noah kill all of the finally impentient outside of the Ark in one single instant of time?, or was there not rather various lengths of time, and degrees of injuries sustained throughout, that people continued to receive and live through, until all were finally destroyed from the face of the earth? with some instantly perishing, and others taking days to finally die either by beast, other men attempting to esacpe their doom fighting for the highest ground, starvation, thirst, hurling and heaving earth, or finally drown beneath the black depths ...

In 2 Peter 2:5 [see also 2 Peter 3:6] KJB, Peter says "flood upon the world", yet in the Koine Greek, it is "κατακλυσμον κοσμω", a 'cosmic cataclysm'. Such devastation and destruction as has never been known, and will never again be known [by water], but will again be by fire. If one were to read Genesis 7-8 KJB carefully they will see that it took some time for all [human-kind] outside of the ark to finally perish, and not all perished at the same time. The wages for sin is death, even from Genesis 2:17 KJB, but the final punishment, being death, is preceded by terrors, anguish, torment, all limited and depending upon the deeds done in the body [Romans 2:6; jude 1:15 KJB], as it is written.

So to die of thirst in such a cataclysm takes several days, while being crushed by a large piece of exploded land, or tree, or debris is near instantaneous. Each is just. Each received the length of time in torment, suffering, that was due, and both received the final end, death.

I provided the scripture, now please consider a magnified look:

Read carefully:

"... His mercy was not weakness, but a terrible power to punish sin because it is sin, yet a power to draw to it the love of humanity.”—7 Bible Commentary, 935-936 - SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7 (EGW), Page 935 -- Ellen G. White Writings

"... “In mercy to the world, God blotted out its wicked inhabitants in Noah’s time. In mercy He destroyed the corrupt dwellers in Sodom. Through the deceptive power of Satan the workers of iniquity obtain sympathy and admiration, and are thus constantly leading others to rebellion. It was so in Cain’s and Noah’s day, and in the time of Abraham and Lot; it is so in our time. It is mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace.”—Great Controversy, 543 - The Great Controversy, Page 543 -- Ellen G. White Writings​

As it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be ...

Consider:

"... the Flood would never come. Notwithstanding the solemn scenes which they had witnessed—the beasts and birds entering the ark, and the angel of God closing the door—they still continued their sport and revelry, even making a jest of these signal manifestations of God's power. They gathered in crowds about the ark, deriding its inmates with a daring violence which they had never ventured upon before.

But upon the eighth day dark clouds overspread the heavens. There followed the muttering of thunder and the flash of lightning. Soon large drops of rain began to fall. The world had never witnessed anything like this, and the hearts of men were struck with fear. All were secretly inquiring, “Can it be that Noah was in the right, and that the world is doomed to destruction?” Darker and darker grew the heavens, and faster came the falling rain. The beasts were roaming about in the wildest terror, and their discordant cries seemed to moan out their own destiny and the fate of man. Then “the fountains of the great deep” were “broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.” Water appeared to come from the clouds in mighty cataracts. Rivers broke away from their boundaries, and overflowed the valleys. Jets of water burst from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and these, in falling, buried themselves deep in the ground.

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their own hands. Their splendid buildings, and the beautiful gardens and groves where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven, and the ruins were scattered far and wide. The altars on which human sacrifices had been offered were torn down, and the worshipers were made to tremble at the power of the living God, and to know that it was their corruption and idolatry which had called down their destruction.

As the violence of the storm increased, trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. Above the roar of the tempest was heard the wailing of a people that had despised the authority of God. Satan himself, who was compelled to remain in the midst of the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and desired them to live to practice their abominations and continue their rebellion against the Ruler of heaven. He now uttered imprecations against God, [page 99-100] charging Him with injustice and cruelty. Many of the people, like Satan, blasphemed God, and had they been able, they would have torn Him from the throne of power. Others were frantic with fear, stretching their hands toward the ark and pleading for admittance. But their entreaties were in vain. Conscience was at last aroused to know that there is a God who ruleth in the heavens. They called upon Him earnestly, but His ear was not open to their cry. In that terrible hour they saw that the transgression of God's law had caused their ruin. Yet while, through fear of punishment, they acknowledged their sin, they felt no true contrition, no abhorrence of evil. They would have returned to their defiance of Heaven, had the judgment been removed. So when God's judgments shall fall upon the earth before its deluge by fire, the impenitent will know just where and what their sin is—the despising of His holy law. Yet they will have no more true repentance than did the old-world sinners.

Some in their desperation endeavored to break into the ark, but the firm-made structure withstood their efforts. Some clung to the ark until they were borne away by the surging waters, or their hold was broken by collision with rocks and trees. The massive ark trembled in every fiber as it was beaten by the merciless winds and flung from billow to billow. The cries of the beasts within expressed their fear and pain. But amid the warring elements it continued to ride safely. Angels that excel in strength were commissioned to preserve it.

The beasts, exposed to the tempest, rushed toward man, as though expecting help from him. Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful animals, knowing that these were tenacious of life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising waters. Some fastened themselves to lofty trees on the summit of hills or mountains; but the trees were uprooted, and with their burden of living beings were hurled into the seething billows. One spot after another that promised safety was abandoned. As the waters rose higher and higher, the people fled for refuge to the loftiest mountains. Often man and beast would struggle together for a foothold, until both were swept away.

From the highest peaks men looked abroad upon a shoreless ocean. The solemn warnings of God's servant no longer seemed a subject for ridicule and scorning. How those doomed sinners longed for the opportunities which they had slighted! ..." - Patriarchs and Prophets, pages 99-100 - Patriarchs and Prophets, Page 99 -- Ellen G. White Writings​

 

The text does not say anything about "eternal punishing" in those texts.

It says the "the smoke goes up" forever.
It says the "devil, the beast and the false prophet" tormented ...

The devil who is 'reduced to ashes' - and "will be no more" -- ceases to be forever.

IS 34:9-11(NASB)
Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
11 But pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of desolation
And the plumb line of emptiness.

(KVJ)
9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.



Rev 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Jude 7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


2 Peter 2:6
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of

Ezek 28
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’

I was not trying to "Cancel verses" - I was "quoting verses" -- details matter.

Jude 7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


2 Peter 2:6
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of

Creative writing is not helping your point.

 

You do realise that quoting the false prophetess views on this issue dies nothing for your view, correct?
be like a Mormon quoting J Smith, or a Scientologist L Ron Hubbard!

 

In this thread, the word "church" is used 13 times - this church, that church and the other church.

Not once is the term ekklēsia invoked. I believe the THE church, the Body of Christ came into existence at Pentecost.

Act 2:4 KJV - And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Example of God's invoking a natural physical event with supernatural results.
Exo 3:2 KJV - And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.

He can cause a soul to be consumed with fire and not cease to exist - a supernatural event.

 

It is true that all of that is supernatural. So also is making a human from the dust of the ground - supernatural.

Adam still died.

But as Christ said in Matthew 10:28 "do not fear those who kill the body and are not able to kill the soul - but rather fear Him Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell".

The contrast is between "can kill only one and not the other" vs "can not only kill the one but can destroy both"

 

Several supernatural events included in these examples

 

The text does not say anything about "eternal punishing" in those texts.

It says the "the smoke goes up" forever.
It says the "devil, the beast and the false prophet" tormented ...

The devil who is 'reduced to ashes' - and "will be no more" -- ceases to be forever.

IS 34:9-11(NASB)
Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
11 But pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of desolation
And the plumb line of emptiness.

(KVJ)
9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.



Rev 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Jude 7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


2 Peter 2:6
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of

Ezek 28
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’



I was not trying to "Cancel verses" - I was "quoting verses" -- details matter.

Jude 7
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


2 Peter 2:6
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of

And remember, Jesus said going to hell is the SECOND DEATH. He said that BEFORE saying it is eternal. Second death - is a term calling it "death" not "eternal life in hell". No text says "eternal life in hell". "Eternal fire" in hell but not "eternal life in hell".

The point remains.

Isaiah 34
5 For My sword is satiated in heaven,
Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom
And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction.
6 The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,
It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.
7 Wild oxen will also fall with them
And young bulls with strong ones;
Thus their land will be soaked with blood,
And their dust become greasy with fat.
8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 Its streams will be turned into pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke will go up forever.
From generation to generation it will be desolate;
None will pass through it forever and ever.
11 But pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of desolation
And the plumb line of emptiness.
12 Its nobles—there is no one there
Whom they may proclaim king—
And all its princes will be nothing.
13 Thorns will come up in its fortified towers,
Nettles and thistles in its fortified cities;
It will also be a haunt of jackals
And an abode of ostriches.
14 The desert creatures will meet with the wolves,
The hairy goat also will cry to its kind;