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A simple fact

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by glad4mercy, May 8, 2018.

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  1. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Reformed quote- quote- The preaching of the gospel is as much a proclamation of judgment to those who reject Christ as it is a message of hope to the Elect.

    How is it possible for them to reject Christ if He did not die for them?

    You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.
     
    #101 glad4mercy, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  2. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    No one believes in saving themselves.

    Look, if I was unable to get up and mow my lawn, and you said "I'll come over and mow your lawn for you", and I allow you to do it, and then I say I mowed the lawn myself because I allowed you to do it, wouldn't you think I was completely off my rocker?

    That's how off Calvinism's arguments are off.
     
    #102 glad4mercy, May 12, 2018
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  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    So "looking unto Jesus" is a work. Got it.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
    #103 InTheLight, May 12, 2018
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    #104 1689Dave, May 12, 2018
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Calvinist. But if you must choose salvation in order to be saved, you have an idol you trust in that you think saved you. Your choosing....
     
    #105 1689Dave, May 12, 2018
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    We are saying the same thing. Experience makes you believe apart from choosing to believe. If you experience Jesus, no choice needed.
     
    #106 1689Dave, May 12, 2018
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Choice = act of the will = works
     
    #107 1689Dave, May 12, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Placing Faith into Jesus to save us is not a work though....
     
    #108 Yeshua1, May 12, 2018
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  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    It's the work of Jesus Christ Alone!... Brother Glen:)

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
     
    #109 tyndale1946, May 12, 2018
  10. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    you believe in some sort of Gnostic Divine-Spark--being regenerated without knowing the Gospel. I'm not confident you understand these verses--you completely ignore the previous verses...

    Eph. 1
    13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
     
    #110 JonShaff, May 12, 2018
  11. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The unbeliever's rejection of the gospel is not based on whether or not they have been predestined to eternal life (Acts 13:48), it is a rejection of the command in Acts 17:30-31:

    Acts 17:30-31 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

    Both are true - the sovereignty of God in election and the culpability of even the non-elect.
     
    #111 Reformed, May 13, 2018
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  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If it is a condition, you trust in your faith and not in Jesus.
     
    #112 1689Dave, May 13, 2018
  13. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    No one denies the Soveriegnty of God. Calvinism has redefined the word to fit their system.

    And what should they repent of? According to John 3:18, the reason for their condemnation is unbelief. So what does God command them to believe that they are not believing? For if they are condemned for unbelief, they must have been commanded to believe.

    Believe what? (IF Christ did not die for them)
     
    #113 glad4mercy, May 13, 2018
  14. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    No, because I do not think that my believing or receiving saved me. God saved me. Read my sig again.
     
    #114 glad4mercy, May 13, 2018
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  15. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    It's just like saying that when the Israelites looked at the bronze serpent they healed themselves. The idea is preposterous
     
    #115 glad4mercy, May 13, 2018
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  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is fine, but at what stage does the new birth take place? After you agree to your salvation, or before you can believe?
     
    #116 1689Dave, May 13, 2018
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    How do you like your false dicotomy?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
    #117 InTheLight, May 13, 2018
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is a basic theological question based on two options. One, people who are not incapacitated by sin, choose to let God regenerate them. Or God must regenerate people before they can believe because sin incapacitates them from believing in Christ.
     
    #118 1689Dave, May 13, 2018
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Based on two options of your definition. This is known as a false dicotomy. Thank you for participating.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
    #119 InTheLight, May 13, 2018
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is not a false dichotomy. What other alternatives are there? You save yourself by meeting conditions = works. Or God saves you because you cannot meet conditions = grace.
     
    #120 1689Dave, May 13, 2018
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