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A simple fact

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glad4mercy

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Reformed quote- quote- The preaching of the gospel is as much a proclamation of judgment to those who reject Christ as it is a message of hope to the Elect.

How is it possible for them to reject Christ if He did not die for them?

You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.
 
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glad4mercy

Active Member
1689Dave said:
What good is grace that does not save? If it only allows you to save yourself it is not grace.
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No one believes in saving themselves.

Look, if I was unable to get up and mow my lawn, and you said "I'll come over and mow your lawn for you", and I allow you to do it, and then I say I mowed the lawn myself because I allowed you to do it, wouldn't you think I was completely off my rocker?

That's how off Calvinism's arguments are off.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:2)

If it is a condition for salvation you must choose to meet - it is.
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So "looking unto Jesus" is a work. Got it.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
So "looking unto Jesus" is a work. Got it.

If you think you met any condition in order to save yourself, it is works. If you think God made salvation available to any who meet to his requirements before he will save them, it is works.

Jesus says, whoever believes has eternal life. If you must choose to believe, it is because you do not believe. If you experience Jesus in your heart, you will believe, just as you believe in other things you experience.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
glad4mercy said:
No one believes in saving themselves.

Look, if I was unable to get up and mow my lawn, and you said "I'll come over and mow your lawn for you", and I allow you to do it, and then I say I mowed the lawn myself because I allowed you to do it, wouldn't you think I was completely off my rocker?

That's how off Calvinism's arguments are off.
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I'm not a Calvinist. But if you must choose salvation in order to be saved, you have an idol you trust in that you think saved you. Your choosing....
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Reynolds said:
Believing it exists is not a "work." Could you type if you didn't believe the keyboard was there?
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We are saying the same thing. Experience makes you believe apart from choosing to believe. If you experience Jesus, no choice needed.
 
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tyndale1946

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Yeshua1 said:
Placing Faith into Jesus to save us is not a work though....
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It's the work of Jesus Christ Alone!... Brother Glen:)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 
JonShaff

JonShaff

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tyndale1946 said:
It's the work of Jesus Christ Alone!... Brother Glen:)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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you believe in some sort of Gnostic Divine-Spark--being regenerated without knowing the Gospel. I'm not confident you understand these verses--you completely ignore the previous verses...

Eph. 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
tyndale1946 said:
Nope... I've heard that argument too... My question is this if hearing the gospel is instrumental to Salvation and as important as that doctrine is why is their no mention of it at the cross?... We are talking of scripture not speculation... My Son didn't need to hear the gospel or read it, his belief came through the heart... Brother Glen:)

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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Reformed

Reformed

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glad4mercy said:
Reformed quote- quote- The preaching of the gospel is as much a proclamation of judgment to those who reject Christ as it is a message of hope to the Elect.

How is it possible for them to reject Christ if He did not die for them?

You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.
Click to expand...

The unbeliever's rejection of the gospel is not based on whether or not they have been predestined to eternal life (Acts 13:48), it is a rejection of the command in Acts 17:30-31:

Acts 17:30-31 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

Both are true - the sovereignty of God in election and the culpability of even the non-elect.
 
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glad4mercy

Active Member
Reformed said:
The unbeliever's rejection of the gospel is not based on whether or not they have been predestined to eternal life (Acts 13:48), it is a rejection of the command in Acts 17:30-31:

Acts 17:30-31 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

Both are true - the sovereignty of God in election and the culpability of even the non-elect.
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No one denies the Soveriegnty of God. Calvinism has redefined the word to fit their system.

And what should they repent of? According to John 3:18, the reason for their condemnation is unbelief. So what does God command them to believe that they are not believing? For if they are condemned for unbelief, they must have been commanded to believe.

Believe what? (IF Christ did not die for them)
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
How do you like your false dicotomy?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
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This is a basic theological question based on two options. One, people who are not incapacitated by sin, choose to let God regenerate them. Or God must regenerate people before they can believe because sin incapacitates them from believing in Christ.
 
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InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
This is a basic theological question based on two options. One, people who are not incapacitated by sin, choose to let God regenerate them. Or God must regenerate people before they can believe because sin incapacitates them from believing in Christ.
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Based on two options of your definition. This is known as a false dicotomy. Thank you for participating.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Based on two options of your definition. This is known as a false dicotomy. Thank you for participating.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
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This is not a false dichotomy. What other alternatives are there? You save yourself by meeting conditions = works. Or God saves you because you cannot meet conditions = grace.
 
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