Featured Does 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 teach the sign gifts have ceased?

Correct and what provided the Spirit?

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:32,33
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb 5:7,9
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:8,9

 

Paul says, "for we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect [Or "when completion"] comes, the partial will be set aside." 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 (NET)

That is, something [complete] will replace prophecy which is in part.

And Peter says the written word is better than the spoken (prophetic).

“And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:18–20) (KJV 1900)

 

Why is it so many believers do not speak in tongues? If tongues were for today, wouldn't you see more of it throughout Christendom? Instead of only in a few recently developed sects?


I believe tongues today are not genuine. And do not happen spontaneously to the unsuspecting as they did in Acts. But charismatics must teach and coax people into learning how to mimic the gift. And this explains why it is denominational instead of body wide.

 

A question.

Do all believers know all things in the Scriptures so that there are absolutely no mysteries and no misunderstandings?

For that is the actual meaning of Paul's statement concerning, "Now we know in part..."

Just when will all believers never know in part, or have any mystery concerning the Scriptures?

Following His return, or in other words, from the beginning of the millennium and on.

The opinion of the cessation can be obliged by the thinking of the eschatology. The a-millennial view must conform the Scriptures to not even suggest a millennial consideration and find some other time in which the gifts of God would cease.

That followed a tradition of teaching that continued in Baptist churches to this day.

God will use as He chooses to further His work.

That some want to limit God, to distill His word into something which would deny the work of the Holy Spirit has been a very poor testimony in Baptist history.

Even the head of the IMB of the SBC understands this and has agreed that both tongues and miracles are ongoing.

 

We still do not see tongues supernaturally happening to the unsuspecting who come to Christ as we do in Acts. It is a learned and coerced experience unlike anything in scripture. Nowhere do we see the apostles or others coaching believers how to do it. If tongues were for today, we wouldn't be discussing it now. It would be a common experience of many throughout Christendom.

 

Agreed, it does not refer to Christ.

Never referred to Christ.

So what is the ONLY solution?

The TIME and conditions of believers following the return of Christ.

 

This makes Paul's comparison between love, faith, and hope that remain, and knowledge, tongues and prophecy that expire, meaningless if all end at the same time.

 

I disagree that Paul's reference is hyperbole.

He refers to himself later in 2 corinthians as having not a single aspect of apostleship less that even the most revered of Apostles.

Paul is contrasting that without the proper motivation, there is no aspect of the ministry that is beneficial.

He then proceeds to express how that proper motivation manifests itself.

Is there a single believer, even among the Apostles in which such manifestation was unfettered? Did not they all fail at time to time in some aspect as seen by Paul rebuking Peter?

When will such manifestation be so fulfilled in completeness with absolutely not a single manifestation diminished?

Do you understand all mysteries in the Scripture?

Do you see completely, without distortion the answer to all things?

Paul put no qualifiers as you do upon the understanding, but stated "then we will know fully..." "WE will see Face to Face..." This can only occur following our Lord's return.

For even (taking the Revelation accurate) the saints of heaven to this day cry out, "How long..." They know only in part, yet are face to face.

 

Never said love, faith, hope expire. Neither did Paul.

 

Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

 

Not true.

Paul did not set in contrast knowledge, faith, hope, love, tongues. Rather, he was demonstrating the superiority of love. That without that love the aspects of faith, hope, tongues, knowledge, are unprofitable, meaningless, of little value. He is not using comparing and contrasting terms, but that which states that if an ingredient is missing the recipe will fail.

Because, after the return of Christ, from the millennium following, Paul could rightly state that faith, hope, and love would abide and such necessaries in which the Holy Spirit may of His choosing provide for the use of some manifestation would cease.

 

Perhaps a disclaimer needs to be inserted:

Tongues in the 1 Corinthian 13 passage is NOT some charismatic gibberish, but a known language used on this earth and that which is used to communicate among the heavenly beings.

Readers need to be informed that the "tongues" movement of the modern Charismatic Movement are not biblical, not to be sought, and not to be emulated in any manner.

Such "charismatic tongues" has occurred in even the religious zeal of the ungodly RCC, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, ...

Rarely did the Native American use actual lyrics to their songs, but used vowel sounds as they worked themselves up into a frenzy.

Worldly "tongues" has no place in the believer's life, it is not of God!

 

I agree. Face to face, means face to face. THAT is part of the point!

1) Paul never even eludes that there is yet to be a completed Bible, and much less does he state such will be "face to face" encounter.
2) There is no expiration date given in Scriptures of when Believer's are to cease "testing the spirits."
3) "By their fruits you shall know them" not by comparing their teaching/preaching.
4) You have no authority to claim you "know others" as God knows us.

 

Paul says: Before completion: "for we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when what is perfect [Or "when completion"] comes, the partial will be set aside." 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 (NET)

After completion: "And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love." 1 Corinthians 13:13 (NET)

Therefore Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as you say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

Plus, do you know any charismatics that did not need to learn about tongues before they spoke in tongues? This alone proves it is fraudulent.

 

Do ALL believers know all things about themselves as they are known by the Father?

I dare say even you, with all your learning and experience, do not know all the secrets of your own heart, much less want that which is hidden away, exposed.

Yet Paul states, that such knowing and understanding will take place.

Paul put no qualifiers in the statement, but stated that knowing will be complete without darkness, without mystery.

Here then I present another problem.

We hold Paul as a writer of Scriptures. Did Paul know all things? Did any prophet know all things? Daniel didn't, and a record of his desire of answer(s) is recorded in his account.

You are the one that stated the use of "face to face" in the Scriptures. That in each it was God directly face to face.

Yet, the prophets and even Mosses set in writing what we read, and therefore we are not face to face, but as those who can read and look through what is presented as one not face to face, but a recipient. They may have been face to face, but WE are not.

When will we be face to face?