Featured Spiritual Death II

I never said that Adam was a divine being. I said that Adam did not posses by nature what the Bible calls spiritual Life ("Christ living in us").

Our disagreement is that simple. No need to wring out things that do not exist.

If you believe there is spiritual life outside of Christ then perhaps you should give the topic more thought.

If you believe Adam was created with "Christ living in him" and later "dying in him" (dying spiritually) then you may want to give the matter more thought.

If you believe this Life temporary then perhaps you have not thought it through (even if you believe you have).

 

I NEVER claimed "God struck Him". If you are accusing me of that heresy then perhaps you need to read my affirmation of Acts 3 before making a false claim.

 

The crux of the issue (and the disagreement) is whether God created Adam with or without "Christ living in him".

It is a very simple question and one I believe Scripture itself answers when it describes what it means to have "Christ living in us"

So my answer is that Adam was created flesh, not "born of the spirit" and in need of a rebirth as evidenced by the Fall.

The opposing position is that Adam was created with spiritual life (with "Christ in him") and the Fall effected "spiritual death" (Adam's sin caused "Christ in him" to "die, for the Life to end in Adam).

The difference is whether it is appropriate to compare Adam's transgression with the sins of man. I contend James 3 applies here. So I view the Fall as a manifestation of man's nature in relation to God whereas the opposing view sees the Fall as bringing about a different nature in man.

Simply put, I see an eternal need for the redemption of man in Christ. I view Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world and creation to have come through Him and exist for Him. So Adam always needed a rebirth if he was to enter God's kingdom which is not inherited by flesh and blood.

 

I am posting as I am walking to another meeting. I may have misread your post.

If you were not accusing me of attributing to God what Scripture refers to as the actions of the wicked then ignore the statement. Yhat is why I added "if".

That said, I do not think anyone here is claiming "God struck Jesus". So it is a strawman claim.

 

I think we all belueve "it pkeased yhe Lord to crush him". If you have not realized this in the past two years of conversation then there may indeed be an issue here.

You offered an interpretation which I (along with others, to include others of the Reformed Tradition) rejected for various reasons. Now you seem shocked other interpretations may exist that affirm the verse.

 

The term? No. Scripture was not written in English.

I have shown that Scripture refers to spiritual life as being "born of the Spirit" and this "Christ in us".

Are you denying those have spiritual life only have this life in Christ?

 

This is what I mean by you choosing philosophy over Scripture.

You should have been content with Scripture.

Do you reject the doctrine that "born of the Spirit" is only "in Christ" and the work of the spirit is "Christ in us"?

 

Try again:

Zechariah 13:6-9
And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will say, ‘ Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’ "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, And against the man, My Associate," Declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered; And I will turn My hand against the little ones. "It will come about in all the land," Declares the LORD, "That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it.“And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ And they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”

 

Don't be foolish, @Iconoclast . You know very well I said it was not applicable because of the previous answers. If you treat Scripture this way there is no wander you have drifted so far from it. Just as you create your own narrative with my statements you have decontextualize the biblical text to create a mythology through which you have interpreted God's Words.

My words, like yours, are unimportant. BUT if you cannot be faithful with unimportant things how can we expect you to be faithful to the important?

 

I see. You are arguing from ignorance.

My point was not that the words "spiritual death" did not appear in Scripture. My point was that the concept of one experiencing a spiritual death does not appear in Scripture. There are (in Scripture) two natures - the flesh and the spirit. From Adam we get the flesh - to include a non-physical part as we have fleshly desires, a will, and a soul. But according to Scripture there is only one way man is "of the spirit", and that is to be born-again, which also means "Christ in us" because Christ IS that Life.

You can deny that all you want, but what you are rejecting are those passages.

It is foolish to claim that I have "spoken down to you" by referring to you as "gnostic christians". You are blending a couple of threads together in your mind. The other thread about "gnostic chirsitans" may apply, that's up to you. I certainly did not label you as such. If you believe my description applies then it is because you are favoring your narrative over God's (revisit the post).