John 12:32 in context

"For God loved the world" is the most difficult passage of the Bible for the followers of a human theologian.

Personally I have no problem with God's universal love of mankind though for the benefit of the elect the lost are doomed and/or destroyed.

Also then by that token what do you say to those Christians over the centuries that were eaten by lions, burned at the stake and suffered torture and death when at any moment in time God in His love could have delivered them and their children.

Would you do this to your children?

 

How does He draw those who will die and have died never hearing the gospel about Him?

 

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 and hath raised [us] up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:4-10 )

That's His motivating reason.

 

I don't follow a human theologian, Hank.
"For God so loved the world" is the most misunderstood passage in all the Bible.
Mainly because other passages clearly demonstrate, at least to me, that He dosn't love each and every man woman and child who ever lived.

 

Ah Yes, I admitted that but sometimes it is difficult to prove in the lives of Christians over a period of time and I have fellowshipped with all sorts, easy to quote but to be forthright sometimes difficult to find.

Most followers of C and some followers of A in my experience (well not quite so bad here at the BB) seem weak in this area which is one of the several reasons I am a Mugwump.

But then again the BB has an open door to debate so allowances are proper IMO and the BB is generally speaking a pleasant place of fellowship and Christian exchange.

However, "Sound Doctrine" without love is the flaw which Jesus found in the Ephesian Church in the Book of Revelation.

Again and of course there is a balance between sound doctrine and agape love lest one be a clanging symbol;

Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

 

I disagree. Just because you can't comprehend it does not disprove His love.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

Nope. Try again. This is mysticism.

18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,


AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

It takes the gospel to save ppl, not this mysticism you’re averring.

 

Everybody loves this...


8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”[Romans 10]

Now, how does anyone call upon the Lord?

By this...


14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHOBRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10]

No hearing the word of God(reading it can save ppl as well) means no faith. No faith means no justification. No justification means no salvation.

 

SovereignGrace,

You didn't include verse 18:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Romans 10:17-18)

God is not limited to human preachers:

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. (Psalms 19:1-4)

 

That does not mean everyone whoever lived will hear about the Christ but that it goes worldwide. Ppl like Billy Graham, Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley are known all over the world, but not everybody whoever lived has heard of them.

The 1 Corinthians 1 passage I previously posted God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. It takes the gospel being proclaimed or read, to save sinners.

 

Yes it does, and I’m not the one who understands scripture? We’re talking about drawing in John 12:32. Ppl are drawn to God by the word of God. It is through the preaching of the gospel that ppl are saved. 1 Corinthians 1:21 says it. Romans 10:14-17 says it. Ephesians 1:13 says it.

Faith coming by hearing the word of God. Ppl are drawn via the word of God. No word of God means no drawing.

 

Well I won't belabor the point or argue about it only bring it up for consideration... What about the two thieves on the cross, one was drawn and the other was not... According to scripture neither heard the gospel... Brother Glen

 

He was there with the Christ. However, we know nothing about either. We don’t know if he(the saved) or both heard the Christ preach. They both heard His witness whilst hanging in the cross.

 

I refer you to post #10 on the following link... Brother Glen

Calvinism and Deathbed Conversions