John 12:32 in context

[Dave G]

You should.

I do.
I also appreciate your directing me to do so.

 

[Van]

Hi Dave, no need to continue to discuss the meaning. I have studied it, and the meaning is obvious.
Have a nice day

 

[SovereignGrace]

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Calvin said they can't hear but Paul says they can. I believe Paul.
MB

I also agree with Paul, but this does not mean every single solitary Gentile will hear it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Greek says it this way.
Acts 13:48 Greek interlinear
Hearing and the nations rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord and believed as many as were appointed to life eternal..
There is no appointment first but belief comes first.
MB

Now this is comic gold. Or better, a Greek tragedy.

 

[SovereignGrace]

True but where did the word come from if not from God and His Son. It is God's word with out which we would all be lost. It all comes from God's workings.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
MB

Yes it comes from God as it is God's word. However, it is through this word how the Christ is revealed. It is not via natural revelation as Romans 1:18ff and Psalms 19 speaks about. Romans 1 is about fallen man's ruined state outside of the Christ. Those who have never heard the gospel, never knew one thing about the Christ, can not gain this knowledge via NR. NR shows them there is a Creator, but it does not show Him as Savior. It takes the word of God to bring the lost to saving faith.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” [Romans 1:16-17]

Notice that the gospel is the power of God for salvation. He does not use NR to bring ppl to saving faith, it is His word He uses. Also, it is the gospel that reveals God's righteousness, not NR. Also, faith comes by hearing the gospel, not NR.

 

[MB]

I also agree with Paul, but this does not mean every single solitary Gentile will hear it.

I believe what God's word says. It doen't say only a few. It's obvious to me Gentiles do make up most of the church today. There are a few Christians who are Jews.

 

[MB]

Now this is comic gold. Or better, a Greek tragedy.

I wouldn't laugh to hard.That is straight from a Greek interlinear.
MB

 

[MB]

Yes it comes from God as it is God's word. However, it is through this word how the Christ is revealed. It is not via natural revelation as Romans 1:18ff and Psalms 19 speaks about. Romans 1 is about fallen man's ruined state outside of the Christ. Those who have never heard the gospel, never knew one thing about the Christ, can not gain this knowledge via NR. NR shows them there is a Creator, but it does not show Him as Savior. It takes the word of God to bring the lost to saving faith.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” [Romans 1:16-17]

Notice that the gospel is the power of God for salvation. He does not use NR to bring ppl to saving faith, it is His word He uses. Also, it is the gospel that reveals God's righteousness, not NR. Also, faith comes by hearing the gospel, not NR.

Paul wrote it and God dictated it. It is clear to me.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

It says they are with out excuse. We may not understand how but I have to take the word of God as truth.
MB

 

[37818]

All can be understood to be drawn, but not all will come, ". . . For many are called, but few are chosen. . . ." -- Matthew 22:14.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I believe what God's word says.

So do I. Please don’t allude to me not believing God’s word, okay?

It doen't say only a few.

Where did I say it was a few. If a # that no man # can constitutes a few, then I agree only a few.

It's obvious to me Gentiles do make up most of the church today. There are a few Christians who are Jews.

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”[Acts of the Apostles 11:18]

God granting the Gentiles repentance is not to be conflated all Gentiles have been granted repentance.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Paul wrote it and God dictated it. It is clear to me.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

It says they are with out excuse. We may not understand how but I have to take the word of God as truth.
MB

Yes they are without excuse. But they are condemned already, condemned at birth. Except a new birth takes place, they will remain in their condemned state. It takes faith to justify. Faith comes by hearing the gospel. If they never hear it, they can never be justified.

 

[MB]

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 )

With respect, Scripture should be enough.



Not in the same sense that the Father does in John 6:44, no I don't.



To you, yes.
I expect you to reject "Calvinism" and the understanding of the Scriptures that I have, simply because I don't think you can see it.
Will you ever see it?
I hope so.



Excellent.
I would hope that you would do no less, sir.
To rely on anything else is to rely on something outside the relationship between you, Him and His precious word.

But, to put it bluntly, if you can stand by what Scripture actually says, how about standing by this?

" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 )

To me, someone who makes the claim to believe the actual words, shouldn't have any trouble believing them exactly as written. and glorified the word of the Lord

Do you believe what this says?

That isn't what the word says in the Greek. Man is not ordained to eternal life while still in his sins and then after being ordained then believes.
The Greek words it like this below;
"Hearing and the nations rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord and believed as many as were appointed to eternal life"
This is from the Greek interlinear bible by Jay P Green
No one is appointed to eternal life with out being saved first. God does not appoint men to eternal life with out them believing.
MB

 

[MB]

Yes they are without excuse. But they are condemned already, condemned at birth. Except a new birth takes place, they will remain in their condemned state. It takes faith to justify. Faith comes by hearing the gospel. If they never hear it, they can never be justified.

I disagree they were condemned at birth. You need to prove that with scripture.
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

That isn't what the word says in the Greek. Man is not ordained to eternal life while still in his sins and then after being ordained then believes.
The Greek words it like this below;
"Hearing and the nations rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord and believed as many as were appointed to eternal life"
This is from the Greek interlinear bible by Jay P Green
No one is appointed to eternal life with out being saved first. God does not appoint men to eternal life with out them believing.
MB

And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,[Hebrews 9:27]

Your claim is off base. By using your logic, we are born unable to die and then appointed to die sometime later.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I disagree they were condemned at birth. You need to prove that with scripture.
MB

In Adam all die...

 

[MB]

In Adam all die...

Dying is not condemnation. We all die saved or not. We are not condemned for Adam's sin that is not scriptural. Death entered the world because Adam sinned. Once it entered the world it was contaminated.
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

Dying is not condemnation. We all die saved or not. We are not condemned for Adam's sin that is not scriptural. Death entered the world because Adam sinned. Once it entered the world it was contaminated.
MB

Adam represented us. When he sinned, we sinned, being in Adam. We were born with the sentence of condemnation upon us, even though we hadn’t personally committed a single solitary sin.

The Christ, who never committed one sin, was treated as a sinner when He was imputed the sins of His elect. His elect are treated as being sinless, though they are still sinners saved by grace.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Dying is not condemnation. We all die saved or not. We are not condemned for Adam's sin that is not scriptural. Death entered the world because Adam sinned. Once it entered the world it was contaminated.
MB

Seeing the wages of sin is death, if babies are born sinless, how can they die?

 

[MB]

I didn't reject what it says. I agree with what it says. But there is CONTEXT to what it says. The verse doesn't stand on its own in isolation of the rest of the passage. You keep ignoring that fact.

Not so. If I had to Quote the whole bible to get a point accross about what every verse says I would have to take upm the whole board. You have a bible check it out you might l earn something. I seriously doubt you agree with it because it means all men are drawn.
[QUOTE="davidtaylorjr, post: 2486749, member: 14683"
I haven't changed anything. I merely showed you the full context not one verse out of context.
[/QUOTE]
No you used a Bible that has changed the meaning of the verse from what it says originally
[QUOTE="davidtaylorjr, post: 2486749, member: 14683"
What exactly did I add to the verse? I haven't added anything.


I never said you misquoted verse 32. I said you ignored the rest of the passage and only looked at verse 32. That is the same mindset that says Jesus said we are not to judge in Matthew 7:1. It only says that if you don't read the rest of the passage.[/QUOTE]
I didn't ignored it at all that is in your imagination. Truth is you just wish to accuse. You wish to make a big deal out of nothing.
MB

 

[MB]

Adam represented us. When he sinned, we sinned, being in Adam. We were born with the sentence of condemnation upon us, even though we hadn’t personally committed a single solitary sin.

The Christ, who never committed one sin, was treated as a sinner when He was imputed the sins of His elect. His elect are treated as being sinless, though they are still sinners saved by grace.

That is not in scripture. We did not sin when Adam sinned.
MB