John 12:32 in context

[SovereignGrace]

post 94

I gave you the answer in post 96.

Now, can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel.

 

[37818]

Actually, this is not correct. The word in Matthew 22:14 is not drawn but called. It has a completely different meaning in the Greek than drawing does.

Many are called, or invited, but only the ones chosen actually are drawn in and answer that call.

Really? So that "many" makes "will draw all" not mean "all?" John 12:32.

 

[MB]

I gave you the answer in post 96.

Now, can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel.

You gave your opinion which for your information is not the word of God. The Bible never said such a thing Post 96 is all in your imagination. Conversation is over until you can prove post 96 is scriptural
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

You gave your opinion which for your information is not the word of God. The Bible never said such a thing Post 96 is all in your imagination. Conversation is over until you can prove post 96 is scriptural
MB

In other words, you won’t answer my question because it will compromise your position.

Good bye and good riddance,

 

[MB]

In other words, you won’t answer my question because it will compromise your position.

Good bye and good riddance,

you are the one who made false claims.
Let it be known "Sovereign grace" will not back up what he says with scripture
MB

 

[37818]

post 94

scripture to prove what you are saying
MB

Not a question, a request.

 

[Van]

Actually, this is not correct. The word in Matthew 22:14 is not drawn but called. It has a completely different meaning in the Greek than drawing does.

Many are called, or invited, but only the ones chosen actually are drawn in and answer that call.

As with others advocating your viewpoint, it is pointless to discuss scripture. I believe scripture teaches we are called (invited) through the gospel of Christ. I believe the call reveals God's lovingkindness as indicated by Christ dying as a sacrifice for our sins, and therefore we are drawn (attracted by persuasion) to Christ. But not all invited and drawn are chosen, so drawn does not mean compelled.

You view is although many are exposed to the gospel, because of their total spiritual inability, they cannot hear and understand the gospel, unless enabled by irresistible grace. But Matthew 23:13 teaches unregenerate men were entering the kingdom, therefore enabled to seek God, but were blocked by false teachers. Therefore I believe your viewpoint is bogus.

 

[Reformed1689]

The problem here is that you would have to prove only some are drawn. Scripture never said only those chosen are drawn. This is a Calvinist idea it's just not scriptural. Maybe you need to read the whole passage. Tell us where scripture says only some are drawn.
MB

I have read the whole passage, you clearly have not or at least are not being honest about what it actually says. And about drawing only the chosen how about John 6:44?

John 6:37-40
John 17:2
John 17:9
Acts 2:39
Romans 8:28-30 (Golden Chain of Salvation)
Romans 9
Ephesians 1:4-6
1 Thess. 1:4

I could keep going but you get the idea by this point if you are honest about the texts.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not a question, a request.

He’s in my ignore now. He won’t engage anyone. It’s onesided when someone debates him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not a question, a request.

And another one just got re-added to my ignore list.

 

[Reformed1689]

But not all invited and drawn are chosen, so drawn does not mean compelled.

You really need to look at the Greek. When the word draws is used it literally means dragged.

You view is although many are exposed to the gospel, because of their total spiritual inability, they cannot hear and understand the gospel, unless enabled by irresistible grace.

Which is what Scripture states.

But Matthew 23:13 teaches unregenerate men were entering the kingdom, therefore enabled to seek God, but were blocked by false teachers. Therefore I believe your viewpoint is bogus.

You need to do some exegetical work on this passage. Nowhere does this verse say unregenerate men were entering the Kingdom.

 

[Reformed1689]

Really? So that "many" makes "will draw all" not mean "all?" John 12:32.

Draw and call are not the same thing.

 

[MB]

And another one just got re-added to my ignore list.

Sounds great to me
MB

 

[SovereignGrace]

You need to do some exegetical work...

That’s their problem in a nutshell. They focus on one verse and lock in on it. They offer no exegesis whatsoever. They quote a verse and say ‘case closed’ without explaining the surrounding context.

 

[MB]

He’s in my ignore now. He won’t engage anyone. It’s onesided when someone debates him.

Of course I'm not double minded
MB

 

[MB]

That’s their problem in a nutshell. They focus on one verse and lock in on it. They offer no exegesis whatsoever. They quote a verse and say ‘case closed’ without explaining the surrounding context.

I woundn't talk if I were you. You Quote men at least I'm Quoting scripture which neither one of you have refuted.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

I woundn't talk if I were you. You Quote men at least I'm Quoting scripture which neither one of you have refuted.
MB

Gonna call you out on this one. That simply is a false statement. I have refuted you repeatedly and you haven't even engaged my arguments.

 

[Van]

Again Davidtaylorjr, you know as well as I do the word is used both literally (to drag, compel) and metaphorically (to draw, attract, persuade.) Claiming it has only one meaning is pointless obfuscation.

1 Cor. 3:1 states Paul talked to new Christians "as men of flesh" using milk. Therefore men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. Therefore total spiritual inability for all people is fiction. Some people yes (the first soil) but not for the rest.

I could go on but it is pointless, you will claim none of the verses mean what they say.

 

[Reformed1689]

Again Davidtaylorjr, you know as well as I do the word is used both literally (to drag, compel) and metaphorically (to draw, attract, persuade.) Claiming it has only one meaning is pointless obfuscation.

No sir. We are talking about two entirely different Greek words.

1 Cor. 3:1 states Paul talked to new Christians "as men of flesh" using milk. Therefore men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand the spiritual milk of the gospel. Therefore total spiritual inability for all people is fiction. Some people yes (the first soil) but not for the rest.

You are reading so much into this text. It does not say they are unregenerate, you read that into it. It says they are living in the flesh. He is calling them to live to their calling.

 

[Van]

As I said, your posts are just more of the same obfuscation I get from others holding the same viewpoint.

For example, now "men of flesh" means "regenerate men of flesh." I kid you not, that is the claim. The opposite of its actual meaning.

Then of course we have the deflection concerning the metaphorical meaning of draw (the Greek word in John 12:32):
"2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; (Trench, § 21, Compare: ἐξέλκω.)"