Featured Where Is Free Will?

I really appreciate the well written response.

Just so I am clear.

God moved the chess piece in regards to the fall.

One last time for clarity

God stirred Adam to go and eat

Would that be fair to say represents your views?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I really think it's important to understand the axiom where we start.

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God used Satan to do this. He is the devil, but he is still God’s devil. Take a look at primary and secondary causes.

 

Let me ask you this...did God know with 100% certainty Adam would do what He did before He did it(the fall I mean)?

 

neither,

God knew of any sin before it happens. Even Satan and the others. Sin did not originate here. Creation is for the redemption of sinners. Mankind is the method where one death of one can offer pardon to all.

Think about what you believe and how it fits together.


Does the Masters cause you any interruption? Are you close ?

 

So God used Satan to deceive Adam to go and eat and cause the fall?

Was Adam free to reject this offer?

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James 1:13 says God tempts no man. God actively using Satan to tempt Adam would violate this.

 

I think God knew Adam would fall of his free choices prior to creation but God went ahead with creating life anyway.

I certainly don't claim to be a scholar and you are free to redicule my beliefs all day.

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Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust.[James 1:13-14]

Take that and piggyback this to it...

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Eve lusted after this tree. Remember, they were created sinless, but not infallible. They were not created without the ability to sin. When Eve ate of TOK, she then handed it to Adam. Both knew the warning given them, yet went ahead and rebelled. They are responsible for what they did. The devil didn’t make them do it. God didn’t make them do it. They made themselves do it.

 

Yes, God knew He would, correct. So, if God knew he’d do it, then Adam had to do it, correct?

 

I never said God tempts anyone. God used Satan for that.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree

1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

 

Negative. Forknowing is not determining. I can watch a child behave and not influence the child. God simply is able to see events ahead of time.

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My Brother, as God is my witness, I was not ridiculing your beliefs. I asked that question to further the discussion. My apology for coming across that way.

 

Again, if God knew Adam would do it, he had to do it. Just like with Saul of Tarsus. If God knew he’d choose to follow Him, then Saul of Tarsus would have to follow Him.

 

Yes, He sees them ahead of time. If I could see a bus crash 500 years from now, then that bus would crash at that time.

 

Foreknowledge in Acts of the Apostles 2:23 means pre-arrangement.

 

God actively using is God "doing."

 

For sure, but I think the disconnect here is when you say (as a calvinist)

God used Satan.


I hear influenced, moved or willed.

God may forknow future events and have plans to make them good.



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He used others to fulfill His decreed will. He was active in Job’s afflictions by sicing Satan on him.