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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Reformed, May 12, 2019.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "MB,

    This is a total misunderstanding of Genesis 1-3. Explain what you think took place?
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    He ate....What died MB? He was physically alive, so what died?
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Nothing ! No where does scripture say that Adam died spiritually. No where does it say he fell. What was he on that he could have fell from? Adam falling is simply not scriptural.
    MB
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    So in your world there is no such thing as spiritual death???
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it doesn't
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    In the Reformed Ordo Salutis (Order of Salvation) "salvation" is in the name. It is not a component part. It is repentance that precedes faith, not "salvation". The Reformed Ordo Salutis is:

    1. Election/Predestination
    2. Atonement
    3. Gospel Call
    4. Inward (Effectual) Call
    5. Regeneration
    6. Faith and Repentance (Conversion)
    7. Justification
    8. Sanctification
    9. Glorification
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    In post #5 of this thread, I explained the effect of the Fall on human faculties. I am restating this because there are certain posters who are making charges that there is no biblical support for total depravity and total inability. It is OK to disagree with the case I made in post #5 but it is not OK to make baseless charges.
     
  7. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Oops:

    John Calvin, Commentary on Jn 8:32

    "when the Lord regenerates us by his Spirit, he likewise makes us free, so that, loosed from the snares of Satan, we willingly obey righteousness. But regeneration proceeds from faith"

    John Calvin, Commentary on Rom 4:16:

    "Here, in the first place, the Apostle shows, that nothing is set before faith but mere grace;...Hence, also, we may easily learn, that grace is not to be taken, as some imagine, for the gift of regeneration,"
     
  8. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    First, I am not trying to prove Calvinism. I started this thread because of what I read on another thread about Romans 10:9-10. This is why I started this thread in the Baptist Theology & Bible Study forum. Others have put this thread in a C&A trajectory.

    Second, I specifically wrote in the OP, "Paul is writing about the Jews." The Book of Romans is written, "to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints" (Romans 1:7). Romans is written to the church in Rome which was a mixture of Gentile and Jewish believers (of course, in Christ, there is no such bifurcation, Romans 10:12; Galatians 3:28). While the Book of Romans is written to the church at Rome, Paul was writing about unbelieving Jews in much of chapter 10. So, if you ask me who the Book of Romans is written to, my answer is the church in Rome. If you ask me who Paul was writing about in most of chapter 10, it is the Jews. Actually, I think I was quite clear in my OP, so I am surprised there is this much confusion.
     
  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Ah, but none of those professional translators understand Greek like the Calvinist with a couple introduction courses in it.
     
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  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    only to a Calvinist.
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Ah, what does Calvin know about Calvinism??
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Post # 59 presented the rebuttal for the false claims made in post #5. There is no biblical support for "total spiritual inability." This was the "charge" made in post #59, with no mention of "total depravity" or "total inability." The only way to demonstrate there is support for "total spiritual inability" would be to provide a verse that has not be altered through interpretation. Finding fault with "certain posters" rather than providing an argument in support of the bogus doctrine is simply the logical fallacy of an"against the man" argument. The reason logical fallacies are used probably rests in the lack of actual support. It certainly was the case as shown in post #59, located near the bottom of page 3.
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    How then was such not performed as a work in order to receive?

    Does not the addict remain controlled by addiction unless there is a core change that compels them to a new standard first? Or do they first compelled themselves to that new standard in some measure of self help and more often fail over again?

    Doesn’t 2 Corinthians state:
    Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

    Is it not seen that ones respond by acknowledging God’s work of salvation demonstrates an already established changing of the heart? Is that not true repentance and confession is all about?

    Does not the Scripture present salvation in all three time tenses of past present future?

    The Lilly does not toil for beauty, it has that nature. The believer confesses and believes, because it is their new nature?
     
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I disagree that Adam was not born with eternal life. But that discussion is for another sin.

    The Scriptures teach all have sinned, therefore all die. Why one sins is also fore another thread.

    One has no ability because the Scripture states, all come short of meeting God’s standard, that includes human faith.
     
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Do you not remember the souls in eternal condemnation are forever alive?

    Some believe in annihilation, but that is heresy. You do not.
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    But not a single one has said one does not have to believe, have they?
     
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Then why do non-calvinists teach the same things.

    By acknowledging man’s innate inability they invented a scheme not found in the Scriptures they call prevenient or preceding grace.

    They refer to the sin of Adam as his fall.

    They teach that because Adam sinned, it is the condition of all, for all have sinned.

    MB, you are denying some of the very teaching non-Calvinistic thinkers teach from pulpits every Sunday.

    Are you denying that souls either reside in heaven or the second death forever?
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It has all the characteristic of law when you replace grace with works.
     
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you determine your salvation by complying with the alleged demands, how can you not be the savior?
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you are starving and dehydrated, and someone throws a meal ticket at your feet, you are he one who saves your life by picking it up and using it.
     
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