Featured What's YOUR definition of "predestination" in Scripture ?

Scripture...read it and know you are wrong.

Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:20-23 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed?

For the end of those things is death.

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death,

but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right,

‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,you did it to me.’ “

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

I see God treating people differently based on how they behave......not because he elected any particular.

All those "reasons" is meaningless if God picks me elect and picks you as reprobate.'

From the foundation of creation God loved me and had UNCONDITIONAL HATRED for reprobates.

 

You don't see, utilyan. If you saw, you would not be making an unsubstantiated argument devoid of God's word.
Your hatred of predestination is not based upon biblical support, but based solely on your philosophical human reasoning that God must be evil if he is Supremely Sovereign.

 

No that can be true. According to your gnostic philosophy its because God has not chosen me to understand.

Think about yourself a week before your "regeneration" did you have a hatred of God?"

 

Is the following predestination?

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19

Is that predestination? Of some type?

 

I make no claims about your standing with God. That is for God to determine.

You make a claim that I am a gnostic. Here is gnosticism:
"Gnosticism says that humans are divine souls trapped in the ordinary physical (or material) world. They say that the world was made by an imperfect spirit. The imperfect spirit is thought to be the same as the God of Abraham. ... Some Gnostic groups saw Jesus as sent by the supreme being, to bring gnosis to the Earth."

Show us how believing God, when he speaks of predestination, is gnosticism.

My friend, the moment before God redeemed me, I was in rebellion. Even now that God has graciously reconciled me I find my rebellious spirit conniving to be in control. But, God lovingly chooses to discipline me because he has chosen to make me his child. (Hebrews 12) I accept such chastisement as a blessing.

 

Or maybe God predestined to call some as the firstfruits, enlightening them with the knowledge of this reconciliation to be shared as the gospel to the world.

See

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:4-9
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:18

A kind of firstfruits. Does that imply more fruit of the same kind at some point in time?

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20

 

Roman's 8 says Whom he did foreknow, He also did predestinate.....the elect alone are predestined to be conformed to the image of the Lord.
Scripture says that clearly.
For you to say differently you need to show it in scripture.

 

Yet, God uses the word "chosen." Why chosen and not called?
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world."

 

you do not works,, please explain how belief is works

 

You prove @Reformed correct when he states:
"You pick those passages that support your beliefs and discard the rest. Have a good day, sir."

You ignore Jesus:

God chooses.

John 6:35-51,63-65 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

John 10:3,6,14-18,25-30 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

John 17:8-17,20-26 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify themin the truth; your word is truth. “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

The text does not say what you say.
You are making up your own story which is different from the biblical narrative.
Jesus does not change anyone's "predestination",??? What verse says this?
What verse teaches any of this?

 

All living people the Father gives him. Read it again. You are avoiding and denying.

 

Yes, because I had no thoughts for Him or His ways.

Hatred of God is more than simply shaking an angry fist at Him...
It is the absence of love and obedience towards Him.

" Thou shalt have no other gods before me." ( Exodus 20:3 )
In my heart, I was my own master and god.

" Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." ( Exodus 20:7 ).
Did that many times, even as an 11 year old.

" Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." ( Exodus 20:12 ).
I didn't always do as I was told, even as a child.
There were times I did wrong, knowing my parents would never find out.

" Thou shalt not kill." ( Exodus 20:13 ).
There were many times I wished bad things, and even death, in my mind towards others for hurting me.
A thought is as good as the deed.

" Thou shalt not commit adultery." ( Exodus 20:14 ).
I've done this, to my shame, even as a believer.
If I'm not saved, there will literally be Hell to pay.

"Thou shalt not steal." ( Exodus 12:15 ).
Stole 9v batteries from the local grocery store, and palmed an occasional candy without paying for it.

...where should I stop with God's Law?
It condemned me even when I was ignorant of it.

My lack of love and obedience towards God did not give me an excuse not to obey Him, because His word says that I have no excuse.
All men know Who He is ( Romans 1:18-20 ), are without excuse, and know what sin is.
Humanity, through the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, knows the difference between them.

To ignore God is to hate God, utilyan.
He requires us to love Him with all our hearts, all our minds and in all our ways ( Deuteronomy 6:5 ).

Since we are not capable of that, it shows the proof that we hate Him.
To hate Him, again, is to ignore Him and not to love Him.

Do you see where you are a sinner, and deserving of eternal punishment for your sins?
I did, and still do.
That is why I throw myself on His mercy, and hope in His Son.

 

" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 ).

That is the context for the "whosoever", roby.
Salvation is not available to all men.
Whoever told you that, was mistaken.

However, "whosoever believeth" leaves room for a lot, for the rolls of Heaven are filled with many more than can be numbered.
Truly, "whosoever believes" shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Have you believed on Christ?
If so, then praise God, for you are one of His elect.

He did.

" Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple." ( Psalms 65:4 ).

The truth of His words did not make you come to Him, knowing that you were a sinner and destitute of His grace, facing His eternal wrath for your disobedience to Him all your life?

That's what made me come to Him.

The truth of His words concerning my condition before Him, and His only remedy...
Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for me.

I hope that that is what did it for you, when you think back on it.