What's YOUR definition of "predestination" in Scripture ?

[Particular]

" God chooses to justly send people to hell for breaking his moral law. All humanity is destined for this just ending, unless God chooses otherwise."

You have no scripture that says this and is based on false retributive justice on a sinner rather then restorative justice of the "victim" God almighty.

In other words you look at a wrongdoer and say well he deserves to have all his things burnt including the things stolen from the innocent victim of what he is charged against in the first place.

What does GOD THE FATHER deserve should be looked at first in restorative justice, WHAT DOES GOD DESERVE takes priority over what a SINNER DESERVES in retribution.

A friend of yours has stolen your car, Retribution based on the criminal well we burn up the car and burn up the friend, cause pain to his family , might even cause you pain and suffering, if it was your own child.......burn him right?

See you the victim is being ignored. Where is YOUR JUSTICE? instead you are incurring damages

God follows restorative justice. First and foremost what did God deserve?

It can't be selfish justice, its not all about YOU. You got this twisted idea that Sin is some perk with menu like pricing.

Scripture...read it and know you are wrong.

Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:20-23 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed?

For the end of those things is death.

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death,

but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right,

‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,you did it to me.’ “

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[utilyan]

Scripture...read it and know you are wrong.

Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:20-23 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed?

For the end of those things is death.

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death,

but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 25:31-46 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right,

‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,you did it to me.’ “

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I see God treating people differently based on how they behave......not because he elected any particular.

All those "reasons" is meaningless if God picks me elect and picks you as reprobate.'

From the foundation of creation God loved me and had UNCONDITIONAL HATRED for reprobates.

 

[Particular]

I see God treating people differently based on how they behave......not because he elected any particular.

All those "reasons" is meaningless if God picks me elect and picks you as reprobate.'

From the foundation of creation God loved me and had UNCONDITIONAL HATRED for reprobates.

You don't see, utilyan. If you saw, you would not be making an unsubstantiated argument devoid of God's word.
Your hatred of predestination is not based upon biblical support, but based solely on your philosophical human reasoning that God must be evil if he is Supremely Sovereign.

 

[utilyan]

You don't see, utilyan. If you saw, you would not be making an unsubstantiated argument devoid of God's word.
Your hatred of predestination is not based upon biblical support, but based solely on your philosophical human reasoning that God must be evil if he is Supremely Sovereign.

No that can be true. According to your gnostic philosophy its because God has not chosen me to understand.

Think about yourself a week before your "regeneration" did you have a hatred of God?"

 

[percho]

Is the following predestination?

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:19

Is that predestination? Of some type?

 

[Particular]

No that can be true. According to your gnostic philosophy its because God has not chosen me to understand.

Think about yourself a week before your "regeneration" did you have a hatred of God?"

I make no claims about your standing with God. That is for God to determine.

You make a claim that I am a gnostic. Here is gnosticism:
"Gnosticism says that humans are divine souls trapped in the ordinary physical (or material) world. They say that the world was made by an imperfect spirit. The imperfect spirit is thought to be the same as the God of Abraham. ... Some Gnostic groups saw Jesus as sent by the supreme being, to bring gnosis to the Earth."

Show us how believing God, when he speaks of predestination, is gnosticism.

My friend, the moment before God redeemed me, I was in rebellion. Even now that God has graciously reconciled me I find my rebellious spirit conniving to be in control. But, God lovingly chooses to discipline me because he has chosen to make me his child. (Hebrews 12) I accept such chastisement as a blessing.

 

[percho]

Or maybe God predestined to call some as the firstfruits, enlightening them with the knowledge of this reconciliation to be shared as the gospel to the world.

See

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:4-9
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:18

A kind of firstfruits. Does that imply more fruit of the same kind at some point in time?

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20

 

[Iconoclast]

And once again - If everyone were already "predestinated", with no chance to change their status, then preaching, Bibles, etc. are useless.

Roman's 8 says Whom he did foreknow, He also did predestinate.....the elect alone are predestined to be conformed to the image of the Lord.
Scripture says that clearly.
For you to say differently you need to show it in scripture.

 

[Particular]

Or maybe God predestined to call some as the firstfruits, enlightening them with the knowledge of this reconciliation to be shared as the gospel to the world.

See

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:4-9
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:18

A kind of firstfruits. Does that imply more fruit of the same kind at some point in time?

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20

Yet, God uses the word "chosen." Why chosen and not called?
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world."

 

[robycop3]

this makes you the savior.

How ridiculous. As I said before, your theology is all messed up.

 

[robycop3]

I typically do not interact with you because of responses like the one you just made. Instead of responding to the text and conclusions I presented, you just ignored them and accused me of silliness. You pick those passages that support your beliefs and discard the rest. Have a good day, sir.

No; you're stuck in your man-made calvinist stuff. When Jesus began His ministry, He didn't say, "Come to me, all you who are "elect". Here's part of what He preached:

Matt.4:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Matt. 9:35And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people

Luke 4:43Jesus said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent.

Nothing about "the elect" in His preaching.

 

[robycop3]

Roman's 8 says Whom he did foreknow, He also did predestinate.....the elect alone are predestined to be conformed to the image of the Lord.
Scripture says that clearly.
For you to say differently you need to show it in scripture.

Yes, everyone is predestinated for either hell or heaven. All who reach the age of accountability are predestined for hell if they don't repent & come to Jesus. But Jesus will change their predestination to heaven if they sincerely come to Him.

The thief on the cross beside Jesus was but hours away from goung to 'torments' & later, hell. But he chose to believe in Jesus, & Jesus saved him, telling him, "Today, you shall be with Me in paradise."

 

[loDebar]

= salvation by works.

you do not works,, please explain how belief is works

 

[Particular]

No; you're stuck in your man-made calvinist stuff. When Jesus began His ministry, He didn't say, "Come to me, all you who are "elect". Here's part of what He preached:

Matt.4:
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Matt. 9:35And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people

Luke 4:43Jesus said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent.

Nothing about "the elect" in His preaching.

You prove @Reformed correct when he states:
"You pick those passages that support your beliefs and discard the rest. Have a good day, sir."

You ignore Jesus:

God chooses.

John 6:35-51,63-65 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

John 10:3,6,14-18,25-30 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

John 17:8-17,20-26 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify themin the truth; your word is truth. “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, everyone is predestinated for either hell or heaven. All who reach the age of accountability are predestined for hell if they don't repent & come to Jesus. But Jesus will change their predestination to heaven if they sincerely come to Him.

The thief on the cross beside Jesus was but hours away from goung to 'torments' & later, hell. But he chose to believe in Jesus, & Jesus saved him, telling him, "Today, you shall be with Me in paradise."

The text does not say what you say.
You are making up your own story which is different from the biblical narrative.
Jesus does not change anyone's "predestination",??? What verse says this?
What verse teaches any of this?

 

[robycop3]

You prove @Reformed correct when he states:
"You pick those passages that support your beliefs and discard the rest. Have a good day, sir."

You ignore Jesus:

God chooses.

John 6:35-51,63-65 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

John 10:3,6,14-18,25-30 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

John 17:8-17,20-26 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify themin the truth; your word is truth. “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

Jesus said "whoever" a number of times. Who does this leave out?

His message is simple here: salvation is open to all living people.

 

[robycop3]

The text does not say what you say.
You show no regard for scripture.
You are making up your own story which is different from the biblical narrative.
Jesus does not change anyone's "predestination",??? What verse says this?
What verse teaches any of this?

So, you're saying Jesus doesn't actually save anyone ?

Please tell us what made YOU decide to come to Him !

I'll tell you what made ME decide to: a brush with death while a cop. My parents had quietly presented the Gospel to me for years, but I simply let it go in one ear & out the other til I realized I could die at any time.

 

[Particular]

Jesus said "whoever" a number of times who does this leave out?

His message is simple here: salvation is open to all living people.

All living people the Father gives him. Read it again. You are avoiding and denying.

 

[Dave G]

Think about yourself a week before your "regeneration" did you have a hatred of God?"

Yes, because I had no thoughts for Him or His ways.

Hatred of God is more than simply shaking an angry fist at Him...
It is the absence of love and obedience towards Him.

" Thou shalt have no other gods before me." ( Exodus 20:3 )
In my heart, I was my own master and god.

" Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." ( Exodus 20:7 ).
Did that many times, even as an 11 year old.

" Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." ( Exodus 20:12 ).
I didn't always do as I was told, even as a child.
There were times I did wrong, knowing my parents would never find out.

" Thou shalt not kill." ( Exodus 20:13 ).
There were many times I wished bad things, and even death, in my mind towards others for hurting me.
A thought is as good as the deed.

" Thou shalt not commit adultery." ( Exodus 20:14 ).
I've done this, to my shame, even as a believer.
If I'm not saved, there will literally be Hell to pay.

"Thou shalt not steal." ( Exodus 12:15 ).
Stole 9v batteries from the local grocery store, and palmed an occasional candy without paying for it.

...where should I stop with God's Law?
It condemned me even when I was ignorant of it.

My lack of love and obedience towards God did not give me an excuse not to obey Him, because His word says that I have no excuse.
All men know Who He is ( Romans 1:18-20 ), are without excuse, and know what sin is.
Humanity, through the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, knows the difference between them.

To ignore God is to hate God, utilyan.
He requires us to love Him with all our hearts, all our minds and in all our ways ( Deuteronomy 6:5 ).

Since we are not capable of that, it shows the proof that we hate Him.
To hate Him, again, is to ignore Him and not to love Him.

Do you see where you are a sinner, and deserving of eternal punishment for your sins?
I did, and still do.
That is why I throw myself on His mercy, and hope in His Son.

 

[Dave G]

Jesus said "whoever" a number of times. Who does this leave out?

His message is simple here: salvation is open to all living people.

" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 ).

That is the context for the "whosoever", roby.
Salvation is not available to all men.
Whoever told you that, was mistaken.

However, "whosoever believeth" leaves room for a lot, for the rolls of Heaven are filled with many more than can be numbered.
Truly, "whosoever believes" shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Have you believed on Christ?
If so, then praise God, for you are one of His elect.

So, you're saying Jesus doesn't actually save anyone ?

Please tell us what made YOU decide to come to Him !

He did.

" Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple." ( Psalms 65:4 ).

I'll tell you what made ME decide to: a brush with death while a cop. My parents had quietly presented the Gospel to me for years, but I simply let it go in one ear & out the other til I realized I could die at any time.

The truth of His words did not make you come to Him, knowing that you were a sinner and destitute of His grace, facing His eternal wrath for your disobedience to Him all your life?

That's what made me come to Him.

The truth of His words concerning my condition before Him, and His only remedy...
Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross for me.

I hope that that is what did it for you, when you think back on it.