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Calvinism is the Gospel

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Dec 25, 2019.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Disagree - Calvinism is Gospel
    Agree - Calvinism is an interpretation of the Gospel
    Agree - Arminianism is an interpretation of the Gospel
    Agree - There are those who have never heard of either one who still preach the Gospel.
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    True.
    That is why the good news needs an explanation assuring to the scriptures....see it?
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I do not do yes or no answers for the most part.
    I will let my answers stand as they are as Squire has asked me to take my foot off the gas.
    To answer further here would be to put the peddle to the metal.
    I will comply with Squires post.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That, yes. But I am not understanding your argument as fo "Calvinism is the gospel."
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    You commented on my thread about Spurgeon's "A Defense of the Gospel." @Iconoclast , is your answer to 37818 in sync with what Spurgeon wrote?

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    I think you realize even defining 'gospel' is going mean different things to different people who hold on to different ideas.
    Some are heretical as in they set themselves apart from what God says is the gospel.

    Paul declares that this is the gospel
    1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)

    1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
    2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
    4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,


    5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

    As you can see, 3 things are the gospel by which means you are saved.
    a. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
    b. He was dead and buried and He rose again alive on the 3rd day.
    c. People saw Him alive after His death, this was witnessed by many people.

    When you receive that , holding it fast to yourself as true, then you are saved.

    Dont add on other requirements for something to be the gospel.
    The big part of where people differ is who Christ died for, did Christ die for unbelievers or did Christ die for believers, how do people define the 'Christ died for our sins'.

    Calvinists always use the scriptures to back up their claims, He died for our sins according to the scriptures, so we always must be in agreement with what scripture says about whom He died for.

    An example is Christ says this
    John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

    John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

    John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

    John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

    Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

    21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

    So we see if you dont believe, this is because you are not one of the sheep, and so then Christ did not give up His life to save you and give you eternal life.
    And Christ is the great Shepherd of the SHEEP only, not the shepherd of those who dont believe. And the shepherd gives up His life for the sheep. When you add on Christ died for those who are not the sheep, you are adding on to the gospel.
     
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  7. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No. Only ignorant. But that will by degrees clear itself up as one learns of Him.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No, they're only ignorant.

    Seriously.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So in your view if one is not a Calvinist one never leans on Him,?
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello 37,
    As in the OP.each of the 5 statements contain an element of what we know as the gospel, but not one is complete by itself.
    When the five points are fully preached, and taught a relatively complete good news is opened up, explained in a way that a believer can go with and offer sinners a biblical framework to consider the claims of Christ.
    John Murray wrote a book called,
    Redemption, Accomplished, and Applied.
    It goes over these issues and shows how the scriptures frame this out.
    No one here is going to refute his work anytime soon.
    Sometimes tracts attempt to offer a slight presentation that is meant to direct a person toward truth, but mostly they are far from complete.
    A popular tract called the Roman's road,offers maybe 4 verses or so.
    It can be used, but it is much more effective if a person shows them the whole Roman's road .
    Not just a few propositions.
     
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  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The word I used is "learn." And, hard to call one's self a Christian if he never learns of Him.
     
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes it is Reformed.The OP. Was taken from a lesson presented in an adult Sunday School class.
    I think I listed 20-25 one line statements similar to these 5 in the OP.
    The goal was to have people work through mentally how the scriptures frame out the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Oh, so one is never learning of Him if they are not Calvinist,?
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not think @Squire Robertsson meant that you should not be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks (1Peter 3), but rather that you proceed with more care. As a member of this board you are welcome to express your beliefs, but you should do so intentionally, with kindness and purpose.

    From what you have said I understand you to mean (correct me where I err in expressing your understanding ) that you believe Calvinism to be the actual gospel of Christ and that those who are not Calvinists hold to an incomplete gospel. You cannot answer simply because your understanding demands that men either be saved by a partial gospel (which is unbiblical), that Calvinism is another gospel (it contains the gospel but adds to it) or Calvinists are the only ones saved (an idea you reject).

    Also, @Iconoclast , I need to point out something that you often say, that is about people having a right to an opinion. Are you aware that you are committing a logical fallacy (the "right to an opinion fallacy")? If you learn anything from this board, I hope it is that you are not entitled to your opinion. You need to learn to construct and defend your arguments. An opinion is a view (or judgment) about something but by definition it has attached to it a certain degree of subjectivity. We are entitled to have an opinion ONLY if we can reasonably argue for it with evidence.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Iconoclast,

    Is it fair to say that you were saved in a Calvinistic church (rather than saved and over time through study moved to Reformed theology)?
     
  17. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    See your just acting like an 'anticalvinist' spoiler by the things you say, rather than saying the amen on the truths in scripture..

    Anyone who is seeking after the truth in a noble manner will study the scripture to see if it really says these things.

    That is a very big problem I have noticed among the haters of Calvinism as a soteriology according to the scriptures. Do you have itching ears becuase you hear it and dont like it, even though that is what scripture says?

    Do you think this is true.
    29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

    Proof our faith is a gift of God, as also does many other scriptures say the same things.
     
    #77 Scott Downey, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Again, this was a question, not a declaration. You make too many assumptions. I was a Calvinistc preacher and teacher. I learned much from that time but as I matured I grew to see flaws and moved to what I know now as a more biblical view. I have a great appreciation for Calvinists and even Calvinism, although I do not hold that view.

    For my part, I am willing to answer. I do believe those who reject the gospel are not saved. I believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved. It is foolishness to the world.

    Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?
     
  19. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    See I view your attitude as one of casting aspersions onto Calvinists.
    No doubt some people are 'triggered' by the word into volatile flesh filled emotions.
    As an answer, no not really, but I see the hatefulness very evident in many people who are Christians.
    Then you have some who say a Calvinist worships an evil god, which is quite a strong judgement to make. I really dont think God will let that pass without some pay back..

    aspersion[ uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn ]SHOW IPA

    a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander:
    casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
    the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation:
    Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My answer was not in regard to what Spurgeon wrote. But i need to say this. Calvainism, though I am not a Calvinist, is rooted in some, I think, essentual truths that are part of the gospel that needs to be believed.
     
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