Calvinism is the Gospel

[rockytopva]

Disagree - Calvinism is Gospel
Agree - Calvinism is an interpretation of the Gospel
Agree - Arminianism is an interpretation of the Gospel
Agree - There are those who have never heard of either one who still preach the Gospel.

 

[Iconoclast]

None of them present Jesusrue as the Christ, the Son of God who died for sins and as evidence of having paid for sins rose from the dead. And through believing God did this with His Son, one can have all one's sins forgiven once and for all.

True.
That is why the good news needs an explanation assuring to the scriptures....see it?

 

[Iconoclast]

You may be clear to some, but like I said, I am a little slow on the uptake.

I have no issue with the belief that Calvinism, Arminianism, Free-will theology...ect.. When correctly understood according to Scripture contain the gospel.

But that was neither the question or the claim of the OP.



Again, for clarification:

1. Whatever the gospel is, is it the power of God unto salvation?

2. Whatever the gospel is, is it sufficient (is it lacking anything)?

3. Whatever the gospel is, is there another way to be saved apart from it?

4. Is Calvinism the gospel of Jesus Christ?

And again, thank you for "dumbing this down" for me. A good yes/ no would go miles in clarification.

I think these four yes or no questions make a good start (I take it you are not ashamed of your view and are able to answer simply for those of us who struggle with these ideas) .

John

I do not do yes or no answers for the most part.
I will let my answers stand as they are as Squire has asked me to take my foot off the gas.
To answer further here would be to put the peddle to the metal.
I will comply with Squires post.

 

[37818]

True.
That is why the good news needs an explanation assuring to the scriptures....see it?

That, yes. But I am not understanding your argument as fo "Calvinism is the gospel."

 

[Reformed]

That, yes. But I am not understanding your argument as fo "Calvinism is the gospel."

You commented on my thread about Spurgeon's "A Defense of the Gospel." @Iconoclast , is your answer to 37818 in sync with what Spurgeon wrote?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Scott Downey]

I am trying to understand your position here, Iconoclast, not debate it. My definition does not matter here.

I understand "Calvinism" to be the "Doctrines of Grace" often articulated by the acronym "Tulip".

You said that Calvinism is the gospel.

I am asking if it is "another gospel" or the gospel that is the power of God to salvation?

I think you realize even defining 'gospel' is going mean different things to different people who hold on to different ideas.
Some are heretical as in they set themselves apart from what God says is the gospel.

Paul declares that this is the gospel
1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

As you can see, 3 things are the gospel by which means you are saved.
a. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
b. He was dead and buried and He rose again alive on the 3rd day.
c. People saw Him alive after His death, this was witnessed by many people.

When you receive that , holding it fast to yourself as true, then you are saved.

Dont add on other requirements for something to be the gospel.
The big part of where people differ is who Christ died for, did Christ die for unbelievers or did Christ die for believers, how do people define the 'Christ died for our sins'.

Calvinists always use the scriptures to back up their claims, He died for our sins according to the scriptures, so we always must be in agreement with what scripture says about whom He died for.

An example is Christ says this
John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

So we see if you dont believe, this is because you are not one of the sheep, and so then Christ did not give up His life to save you and give you eternal life.
And Christ is the great Shepherd of the SHEEP only, not the shepherd of those who dont believe. And the shepherd gives up His life for the sheep. When you add on Christ died for those who are not the sheep, you are adding on to the gospel.

 

[Aaron]

So.....in calvinism is the gospel and you do not believe in the gospel (calvinism) then you are not saved?

No. Only ignorant. But that will by degrees clear itself up as one learns of Him.

 

[Aaron]

So those who are Christians but not calvinist are not really Christians because they reject calvinism?

No, they're only ignorant.

Seriously.

 

[Revmitchell]

No. Only ignorant. But that will by degrees clear itself up as one learns of Him.

So in your view if one is not a Calvinist one never leans on Him,?

 

[Iconoclast]

That, yes. But I am not understanding your argument as fo "Calvinism is the gospel."

Hello 37,
As in the OP.each of the 5 statements contain an element of what we know as the gospel, but not one is complete by itself.
When the five points are fully preached, and taught a relatively complete good news is opened up, explained in a way that a believer can go with and offer sinners a biblical framework to consider the claims of Christ.
John Murray wrote a book called,
Redemption, Accomplished, and Applied.
It goes over these issues and shows how the scriptures frame this out.
No one here is going to refute his work anytime soon.
Sometimes tracts attempt to offer a slight presentation that is meant to direct a person toward truth, but mostly they are far from complete.
A popular tract called the Roman's road,offers maybe 4 verses or so.
It can be used, but it is much more effective if a person shows them the whole Roman's road .
Not just a few propositions.

 

[Aaron]

So in your view if one is not a Calvinist one never leans on Him,?

The word I used is "learn." And, hard to call one's self a Christian if he never learns of Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

You commented on my thread about Spurgeon's "A Defense of the Gospel." @Iconoclast , is your answer to 37818 in sync with what Spurgeon wrote?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Yes it is Reformed.The OP. Was taken from a lesson presented in an adult Sunday School class.
I think I listed 20-25 one line statements similar to these 5 in the OP.
The goal was to have people work through mentally how the scriptures frame out the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Revmitchell]

The word I used is "learn." And, hard to call one's self a Christian if he never learns of Him.

Oh, so one is never learning of Him if they are not Calvinist,?

 

[JonC]

I do not do yes or no answers for the most part.
I will let my answers stand as they are as Squire has asked me to take my foot off the gas.
To answer further here would be to put the peddle to the metal.
I will comply with Squires post.

I do not think @Squire Robertsson meant that you should not be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks (1Peter 3), but rather that you proceed with more care. As a member of this board you are welcome to express your beliefs, but you should do so intentionally, with kindness and purpose.

From what you have said I understand you to mean (correct me where I err in expressing your understanding ) that you believe Calvinism to be the actual gospel of Christ and that those who are not Calvinists hold to an incomplete gospel. You cannot answer simply because your understanding demands that men either be saved by a partial gospel (which is unbiblical), that Calvinism is another gospel (it contains the gospel but adds to it) or Calvinists are the only ones saved (an idea you reject).

Also, @Iconoclast , I need to point out something that you often say, that is about people having a right to an opinion. Are you aware that you are committing a logical fallacy (the "right to an opinion fallacy")? If you learn anything from this board, I hope it is that you are not entitled to your opinion. You need to learn to construct and defend your arguments. An opinion is a view (or judgment) about something but by definition it has attached to it a certain degree of subjectivity. We are entitled to have an opinion ONLY if we can reasonably argue for it with evidence.

 

[JonC]

I think you realize even defining 'gospel' is going mean different things to different people who hold on to different ideas.
Some are heretical as in they set themselves apart from what God says is the gospel.

Paul declares that this is the gospel
1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

As you can see, 3 things are the gospel by which means you are saved.
a. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
b. He was dead and buried and He rose again alive on the 3rd day.
c. People saw Him alive after His death, this was witnessed by many people.

When you receive that , holding it fast to yourself as true, then you are saved.

Dont add on other requirements for something to be the gospel.
The big part of where people differ is who Christ died for, did Christ die for unbelievers or did Christ die for believers, how do people define the 'Christ died for our sins'.

Calvinists always use the scriptures to back up their claims, He died for our sins according to the scriptures, so we always must be in agreement with what scripture says about whom He died for.

An example is Christ says this
John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.

John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Hebrews 13:20 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

So we see if you dont believe, this is because you are not one of the sheep, and so then Christ did not give up His life to save you and give you eternal life.
And Christ is the great Shepherd of the SHEEP only, not the shepherd of those who dont believe. And the shepherd gives up His life for the sheep. When you add on Christ died for those who are not the sheep, you are adding on to the gospel.

Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?

 

[JonC]

I do not do yes or no answers for the most part.
I will let my answers stand as they are as Squire has asked me to take my foot off the gas.
To answer further here would be to put the peddle to the metal.
I will comply with Squires post.

Iconoclast,

Is it fair to say that you were saved in a Calvinistic church (rather than saved and over time through study moved to Reformed theology)?

 

[Scott Downey]

Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?

See your just acting like an 'anticalvinist' spoiler by the things you say, rather than saying the amen on the truths in scripture..

Anyone who is seeking after the truth in a noble manner will study the scripture to see if it really says these things.

That is a very big problem I have noticed among the haters of Calvinism as a soteriology according to the scriptures. Do you have itching ears becuase you hear it and dont like it, even though that is what scripture says?

Do you think this is true.
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

Proof our faith is a gift of God, as also does many other scriptures say the same things.

 

[JonC]

See your just acting like an 'anticalvinist' spoiler by the things you say, rather than saying the amen on the truths in scripture..

Anyone who is seeking after the truth in a noble manner will study the scripture to see if it really says these things.

That is a very big problem I have noticed among the haters of Calvinism as a soteriology according to the scriptures. Do you have itching ears becuase you hear it and dont like it, even though that is what scripture says?

Again, this was a question, not a declaration. You make too many assumptions. I was a Calvinistc preacher and teacher. I learned much from that time but as I matured I grew to see flaws and moved to what I know now as a more biblical view. I have a great appreciation for Calvinists and even Calvinism, although I do not hold that view.

For my part, I am willing to answer. I do believe those who reject the gospel are not saved. I believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved. It is foolishness to the world.

Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?

 

[Scott Downey]

Again, this was a question, not a declaration. You make too many assumptions. I was a Calvinistc preacher and teacher. I learned much from that time but as I matured I grew to see flaws and moved to what I know now as a more biblical view. I have a great appreciation for Calvinists and even Calvinism, although I do not hold that view.

For my part, I am willing to answer. I do believe those who reject the gospel are not saved. I believe the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are being saved. It is foolishness to the world.

Do you believe that those who do understand Calvinism and reject it as the gospel are not "of the sheep"?

See I view your attitude as one of casting aspersions onto Calvinists.
No doubt some people are 'triggered' by the word into volatile flesh filled emotions.
As an answer, no not really, but I see the hatefulness very evident in many people who are Christians.
Then you have some who say a Calvinist worships an evil god, which is quite a strong judgement to make. I really dont think God will let that pass without some pay back..

aspersion[ uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn ]SHOW IPA

a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander:
casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation:
Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.

 

[37818]

You commented on my thread about Spurgeon's "A Defense of the Gospel." @Iconoclast , is your answer to 37818 in sync with what Spurgeon wrote?

My answer was not in regard to what Spurgeon wrote. But i need to say this. Calvainism, though I am not a Calvinist, is rooted in some, I think, essentual truths that are part of the gospel that needs to be believed.