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Featured What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alofa Atu, Mar 26, 2020.

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  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    So what? The context for this chapter is the entire epistle of Romans. Chapter divisions and verse divisions were later added to the epistle.

    You fail to prove your claim to be true.
    Hebrews 3-4 does not have the word Sabbath. You do not cite any verse in the New Testament where Exodus 20:8 is quoted: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it only."​
     
    #81 Logos1560, Mar 31, 2020
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  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Make plain what you're saying-- does God still 'rest' every sabbath?-- Yes or No.
     
    #82 Alcott, Mar 31, 2020
  3. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there are English Bibles which translate incorrectly. That doesn't mean that the word "Sunday" is actually in the Bible.
     
    #83 Alofa Atu, Mar 31, 2020
  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You do not define the term Bible and show that you would apply it consistently and justly.

    Pre-1611 English Bible translations are a Bible in the same sense as a Bible translation in 1611 is a Bible. The KJV sometimes translates incorrectly.

    One reason Benjamin George Wilkinson (1872-1968), Dean of Theology at a Seventh-Day Adventist college, objected to the 1881 Revised Version was because it robbed Adventists of several of their favorite KJV proof texts for soul-sleep and Saturday Sabbath-keeping.
     
    #84 Logos1560, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    I deny your claim and false charges. Never-the-less. When are you going to address the main issue of the OP? Revelation 1:10, "the Lord's day" according to scripture alone, or will you continue to prove that Baptists aren't sola scriptura, by replying to everything but that topic?
     
    #85 Alofa Atu, Mar 31, 2020
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You have not proven that your views are sola scripture so you do not practice what you preach. You do not soundly identify which day is "the Lord's day" according to the immediate context of the verse in Revelation 1:10. You add or read your own biased opinions into verses that do not state what you claim, and you try to connect other verses to Revelation 1:10 without proving any direct connection.

    You did not demonstrate that I supposedly made any false charge against you. You have not defined the term Bible nor the term Scripture, and you have clearly not applied the terms justly. You refused to apply the term the same way to the pre-1611 English Bibles as you use it for the KJV. Pre-1611 English Bibles identified the Lord's day as being Sunday, but you inconsistently try to dismiss them as not being a Bible or translated Scripture.
     
    #86 Logos1560, Mar 31, 2020
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  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    #87 Alofa Atu, Apr 1, 2020
  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: - Colossians 2:15-16

    I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.- 1 Corinthians 2:2

    My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

    You have overly complicated Christianity.. We want to bring people to a point where Christ is formed on the inside. From there....

    If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. - Galatians 5:18

    As far as following Ellen White....

    suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1 Timothy 2:12
     
    #88 rockytopva, Apr 1, 2020
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  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Salvation is as easy as simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ....

    And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. - John 3:13-14

    But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11 2-3
     
    #89 rockytopva, Apr 1, 2020
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  10. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly "new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts. The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "my [as in God's] sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandmnents, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

    Colossians 2:14 - “ordinances”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “law of commandments contained in ordinances”
    Hebrews 9:1 – “ordinances of divine service”
    Hebrews 9:10 – “carnal ordinances”

    Colossians 2:16 – “in meat, or in drink” [offerings]
    Hebrews 9:10 – “meats and drinks” [offerings]

    Colossians 2:12 – “also ye are risen with him”
    Ephesians 2:6 – “raised us up together”

    Colossians 2:16 – “a shadow of things to come”
    Ephesians 2:7 – “in the ages to come”
    Hebrews 9:11 – “of good things to come”
    Hebrews 10:1 – “the law having a shadow of good things to come”, “those sacrifices”, “offered year by year”

    Hebrews 9:9 – “was a figure”
    Hebrews 9:23 – “the patterns”
    Hebrews 9:24 – “the figures”
    Hebrews 10:1 – “not the very image of the things”

    Colossians 2:2 – “riches”
    Colossians 2:3 – “treasures”
    Ephesians 2:7 – “riches”

    Colossians 2:11 – “of the flesh”
    Colossians 2:13 – “flesh”
    Ephesians 2:3 – “flesh ... the flesh”
    Ephesians 2:11 – “in the flesh”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “in his flesh”
    Hebrews 9:13 – “flesh”
    Hebrews 10:20 – “his flesh”

    Colossians 2:14 – “the handwriting of ordinances”
    Ephesians 2:15 – “the law of commandments contained in ordinances”
    Hebrews 9:19 – “Moses ... to the law ... blood ... book”
    Hebrews 9:22 – “by the law ... with blood”

    Colossians 2:11 – “putting off the body of the sins”
    Hebrews 9:26 – “put away sin”
    Hebrews 10:4 – “take away sins”
    Hebrews 10:9 – “He taketh away the first”​

    The immediate reference:

    “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” – Colossians 2:16

    “And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.” – Ezekiel 45:17​

    [ps. none of the Ten Commandments deal with carnal sacrifices, the context of Ezekiel 45 and its "ordinances" - see vs 14 for example]

    The "ordinances" of type:

    "ordinances" - Colossians 2:14 (like Passover)
    "carnal" [sacrifices] - Hebrews 9:10
    "worldly" - Hebrews 9:1
    "shadow" - Colossians 2:17
    "to come" [pointing to future, as type to antitype]- Colossians 2:16; Ephesians 2:17; Hebrews 9:11, 10:1​

    Now that is incomparable to the Ten Commandments, eternal the Law of God:

    "Ten Commandments"    , "Law of God" - Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4
    "spiritual" [all of it, obedience by faith and love] - Romans 7:14
    "heaven" - Exodus 20:22
    "light" - Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20, 51:4; Psalms 119:105
    "Remember" [memorial, past] - Exodus 20:8​
     
    #90 Alofa Atu, Apr 1, 2020
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The Greeks read the original Greek just fine. There ain't SDA GREEKS figure that out.
     
    #91 utilyan, Apr 1, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Neither were the teachings and doctrines of Ellen White!
     
    #92 Yeshua1, Apr 1, 2020
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  13. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Simply put...

    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
     
    #93 rockytopva, Apr 1, 2020
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  14. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    #94 Alcott, Apr 1, 2020
  15. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Not about Justification at all.

    Isa_45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

    Not about 'earning' anything. I tell you untold times, and you refuse to hear it.
     
    #95 Alofa Atu, Apr 1, 2020
  16. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    Amen! Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

    2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
     
    #96 mailmandan, Apr 2, 2020
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  17. mailmandan

    mailmandan Active Member

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    That the "Lord's day" in Revelation 1:10 is the sabbath day (Saturday) is INCONCLUSIVE. SDA's reach this conclusion based on their biased opinions and need to promote their perverted sabbath gospel which culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works."

    Jesus rose (after the sabbath) on the first day of the week - "Sunday." (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1) In all the 5 books that John wrote, he always called the sabbath "the sabbath." If Revelation 1:10 was the sabbath, then John would certainly have said, "I was in the Spirit on the sabbath," but of course, that is not what John said. SDA's turn the sabbath into an idol.

    Numerous writings point to early Christians calling the first day of the week, the "Lord's day." It truly amazes and saddens me to see just how brain washed SDA's truly are and just how far they will go to accommodate their perverted gospel. :(
     
    #97 mailmandan, Apr 2, 2020
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  18. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    You mean those non-scriptural spurious, imaginary and contradictory material of the 'ecf' (easily confused fellows) I already addressed here? - What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

    See, Baptists (current) aren't Sola Scriptura. They're as traditionalist as Rome is, and even carry her doctrines, as foretold. 'She' (RC) was right about them.
     
    #98 Alofa Atu, Apr 2, 2020
  19. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Not in question. Non-sequitur.

    No. "Sunday" is midnight to midnight, pagan Roman time. The "first [day] of the week" is Bible time, evening unto evening. You seem to be rather confused about that.

    Yes, and in each instance, the sabbath is still the culmination of the week, see koine Greek.

    Not so, as already shown from Revelation 1:10's context.

    That is again presumption upon your part, about what the Holy Ghost/Spirit inspired, and what you think it ought to have been.

    Revelation, was written before the Gospel of John and his epistles (according to most), and I have already shown why John uses the phrase, as he is citing Isaiah in the midst of a Chiasm, and connected with the "word of God" (Law) and "testimony of Jesus" (Spirit (as "in the Spirit on") of Prophecy).

    What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

    He wrote "the Lord's day", citing Isaiah 58:13, see previous context and link.

    Baseless Ad Hominem. Old, man, just old. Remember, sola scriptura, and you provided none, while I, by the grace of God, provided all.
     
    #99 Alofa Atu, Apr 2, 2020
  20. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Adventist attempt turn our Christian church into legalism... And... We are not interested!
     
    #100 rockytopva, Apr 2, 2020
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