What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

[Logos1560]

Thank you for your time, but when you are serious about the OP, rather than taking this non-sensical route, please let me know.

There was nothing no nonsense in pointing out your failure to practice what you preach. Perhaps your OP cannot be taken seriously since you fail to back up claims that you posted yourself in this thread.

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Lord owns every day. Every day is His.

Non-sequitur. It was never argued otherwise. God rested only the 7th day. It is His in a special way, in that it alone of all the days of the week, was made holy by God's presence and so sanctified.

 

[Logos1560]

Non-sequitur.

Your claim concerning the KJV is non-sequitur, and it does not follow from the scripture verses that you cite. You read something into the verses that they do not say or else you add to them something that they do not say in making your non-scriptural claim concerning the KJV.

 

[robycop3]

I had thought you intelligent. Please notice that word 'had'. Yet, to redeem yourself to present tense intelligent, I am sure you can properly identify KJB, that is, unless you choose to remain 'simple'. Perhaps, when you decide to be sola scriptura, you will address the OP and subsequent materials, instead of pretending to be 'infantile'.

You have no room to question others' intelligence. The King James version of the Bible is the KJV - K ing J ames V ersion. It's not "the" Bible. It's a Bible VERSION.

Its makers called it the Authorized VERSION of 1611. It was several years before Anglican clerica started calling it "King James' Version" in honor of their king, who was head of the Anglican Church, a title begun by Henry VIII.

 

[robycop3]

Ad Hominem. Deal with the facts of the OP and subsequent material in the thread that I provided.

See, Baptists aren't sola scriptura. This fact is being proven by your non-sequitur responses.

You dudes/dudettes are Sola Ellen White.

 

[robycop3]

I had thought you intelligent. Please notice that word 'had'. Yet, to redeem yourself to present tense intelligent, I am sure you can properly identify KJB, that is, unless you choose to remain 'simple'. Perhaps, when you decide to be sola scriptura, you will address the OP and subsequent materials, instead of pretending to be 'infantile'.

Please step up to the plate with your KJVO jive in the "Bible versions/translations" sub-forum, and I & others will smash your KJVO myth for you. This isn't the correct sub-forum for that.

But Paul's writings deal with the "Saturday or Sunday" issue as JESUS wants.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Please step up to the plate ...

I admonish you to take the challenge already set forth before you in the OP.

I will even let you use any Bible or translation you want, in any language you want, or even any combination thereof. The rule of the OP is, to identify "the Lord's day" by scripture alone.

I have already made the case, now, what will you do? Are you sola scriptura, or not?

 

[Alcott]

If God observes a sabbath, what is his time zone?

 

[Alofa Atu]

If God observes a sabbath, what is his time zone?

Do you doubt God rested? (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc) You said, "If". You sound like this person which came to Jesus in the wilderness ...

In Genesis, it was based upon His location, in relation to the Sun as over the Garden of Eden and Adam.

 

[Alcott]

Do you doubt God rested? (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11, etc) You said, "If". You sound like this person which came to Jesus in the wilderness

I asked the question in present tense.

In Genesis, it was based upon His location, in relation to the Sun as over the Garden of Eden and Adam.

And where was that? In the area known as the "fertile crescent," perhaps?

 

[Alofa Atu]

...And where was that? In the area known as the "fertile crescent," perhaps?

The location is known to God, Angels, and those in Heaven.

 

[Alofa Atu]

I asked the question in present tense.

Yes, and Genesis is present tense. God rested.

 

[robycop3]

I admonish you to take the challenge already set forth before you in the OP.

I will even let you use any Bible or translation you want, in any language you want, or even any combination thereof. The rule of the OP is, to identify "the Lord's day" by scripture alone.

I have already made the case, now, what will you do? Are you sola scriptura, or not?

Scripture does not tell us which day was "the Lord's day" in Revelation. But we DO have Paul's writings telling us observing fest days or sabbaths was a matter of individual consciences. Christians are not bound to "holidays". And REAL Christians are not bound to the writings of a charlatan such as Ellen G. White.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Scripture does not tell us which day was "the Lord's day" in Revelation.

Why would you be 'restricted' to Revelation? Do you use that excuse for other places in scripture?

Secondly, it does so identify, see:

What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

But we DO have Paul's writings telling us observing fest days or sabbaths was a matter of individual consciences. Christians are not bound to "holidays". And REAL Christians are not bound to the writings of a charlatan such as Ellen G. White.

Romans 14, the quick of it.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.​

This is used to teach that God regards not any day as Holy, such as the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and that all days or no days may be kept at man's whim. Yet that is not what Romans 14 (and yea, all of Romans) teaches at all. Notice carefully,

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]​

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.​

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.​

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances​

Let's look at the details of Romans 14.

Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another. Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offence at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish beleivers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do. If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Comamndments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

 

[rockytopva]

Why would you be 'restricted' to Revelation? Do you use that excuse for other places in scripture?

Secondly, it does so identify, see:

What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

What is the Lord's day according to scripture alone?

Romans 14, the quick of it.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.​

This is used to teach that God regards not any day as Holy, such as the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and that all days or no days may be kept at man's whim. Yet that is not what Romans 14 (and yea, all of Romans) teaches at all. Notice carefully,

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]​

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.​

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.​

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances​

Let's look at the details of Romans 14.

Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another. Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offence at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish beleivers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do. If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Comamndments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: - Colossians 2:15-16

I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.- 1 Corinthians 2:2

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

You have overly complicated Christianity.. We want to bring people to a point where Christ is formed on the inside. From there....

If ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. - Galatians 5:18

As far as following Ellen White....

suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1 Timothy 2:12

 

[utilyan]

Could you produce one place in this thread where I quoted sister White? Could you also produce one place where I 'adlibbed' to scripture for the point of the OP?

That's part of the problem its called being deceptive and disingenuous.

If I had a PROPHET which by the way out ranks a POPE any day. Whatever they say is automatically holy scripture. That is the mouthpiece of God.

If you act like she was legit as scripture you would be quoting her up and down.

But since you already know the reaction your going to get for presenting a false prophet. You got to throw her in the closet.

That would be like me taking the book of James and throwing it in the closet because I might offend some folks.

When Accusation of other religions, lying and deception are the only tools in your arsenal you going to have problems.


Where is the improvement in anything making your way a better way? Who do you help, never even heard of you guys.....?

We know folks by their fruits right? where's the fruit?

All I see the same ole spritual xenophobic bigotry that is ---->"if your in my faith your okay, but if your in some other faith you obviously serve the devil"

I heard that line all my life from fifty different folks. Don't eat pork. Don't eat chocolate, Don't pray to God today. Pray this way looking at that city over there.

tell me how much your life is so much better blaming everyone else for being the problem.


Where's the faith out there that says hey you better take responsibility and you a bigger problem then your buddy next to you?

 

[Alcott]

Yes, and Genesis is present tense. God rested.

Do you not know THAT is past tense?

 

[robycop3]

Alofa, none of the Scriptures you quoted call the sabbath the "Lord's day", either in your KJV or in better translations. And your attempts to re-define Paul's writings & make them say something they don't say won't work, either.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Do you not know THAT is past tense?

It's a ray, not a point.

 

[Logos1560]

The word Sunday is not found in the Bible.

At Revelation 1:10, the word Sunday is found in 1534 Tyndale's Bible, the 1535 Coverdale's Bible, and the 1537 Matthew's Bible.

At 1 Corinthians 16:2, the word Sunday is found in 1534 Tyndale's Bible and in 1537 Matthew's Bible.