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JOHN MACARTHUR AND ASSURANCE

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Steven_15, Apr 24, 2020.

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  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    i have but apparently to no avail on your part.
    i no longer prolong these discussions of disagreement but simply ask the readers to review the debate and decide on their own.

    read MacArthur's view then the apostolic NT passages in post #99.

    e.g.
    1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.,
     
    #101 HankD, Apr 29, 2020
  2. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Regardless of how much you persevere, is your fruit going to be perfect?

    Does forgiveness come from grace or your admission/confession of sin?

    Is security meaningful in your experience without assurance?
     
    #102 Steven_15, Apr 29, 2020
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If Jesus was just killed off with out shedding his blood, would that atone for our sins?
     
    #103 Yeshua1, Apr 29, 2020
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    we never can lose relationship with the Father, as death of Jesus paid for entire sin debt owed, bujt can mess with fellowship!
     
    #104 Yeshua1, Apr 29, 2020
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why do the Apostles reference and highlight his shed blood so much then?
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Apr 29, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is that due to our efforts, or due to the Holy Spirit and intercession of Jesus as our High priest?
     
    #106 Yeshua1, Apr 29, 2020
  7. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    It is lack of faith not lack of works which messes relationship.
     
    #107 Steven_15, Apr 29, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Relationship anchored fully into Cross and Christ, that is never messed with!
     
    #108 Yeshua1, Apr 30, 2020
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    1. They should immediately removed from leadership and counseled regarding church discipline
    2. Counseled towards repentance
    3. If they fail to repent or get married, church discipline should happen
    4. They should be restored to membership only when they openly repent before the church
     
    #109 Marooncat79, Apr 30, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    There is no relationship possible with God except through faith.
     
    #110 Steven_15, Apr 30, 2020
  11. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    To do so, shouldn't the church committee be sinless before God?
     
    #111 Steven_15, Apr 30, 2020
  12. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    Lordship salvation teaches christians to trust in the plans/efforts of the self rather than believe in grace which rules a christian (Romans 5:21).
     
    #112 Steven_15, Apr 30, 2020
  13. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Where in the Bible does it state that any person is sinless?

    [Rom 3:23 ESV] 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    [Mat 18:15-17 ESV] 15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

    [1Co 5:1-5 ESV] 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
     
    #113 Wesley Briggman, Apr 30, 2020
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I believe that's R.C. Sproul, not MacArthur (who is still alive).

    "I sure don’t want to end up in hell. But one thing I know for sure is that if I do, if I have deceived myself all these years, and if I’m one who says, 'Well, Lord, Lord, didn’t I do this and didn’t I do that?' and He looks at me and says, 'Please leave, I don’t know you,' and He sends me to hell, one thing I can promise you is that I’ll be a weeper, not a gnasher. Because if I know anything about theology, I know that if He sent me to hell tonight, I could make no just complaint against Him."
     
    #114 rsr, May 1, 2020
  15. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    These passages are never against grace. They never say assurance is by works. They never deny Romans 4:7,8.
     
    #115 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  16. Steven_15

    Steven_15 Member

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    If the church committee members trust in the works of the moral law in order to be sanctified, they need to fulfill the law perfectly according to Mathew 5:48. If not, they will heap hell fire upon themselves for condemning others for non-fulfilment of the moral law.
     
    #116 Steven_15, May 1, 2020
  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    No. They are living in blatant sin and show a lack of true conversion. This is open hostilitybto Gods Word not a slip of the tongue or a weak moment
     
    #117 Marooncat79, May 1, 2020
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    No it does not
     
    #118 Marooncat79, May 1, 2020
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    yes it does
     
    #119 HankD, May 1, 2020
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which God supplies to His very own!
     
    #120 Yeshua1, May 1, 2020
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