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Featured Chosen in Him Before the Foundation of the world

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jun 12, 2020.

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  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    When ever it says ' chosen ' it is about what purpose we have been chosen to do or be AFTER we are saved .
     
    #41 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    In Ephesians 1 We have been Chosen in Him for what ( that's the question to ask ) ? to be Holy and blameless ect.
     
    #42 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  3. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    All those that have believed the Gospel FOR ?
    that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7¶In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Ok According to Ephesians 1.5 what are we predestined to ? to the Adoption . When is the Adoption ? this is the error most folks make . They think this Adoption is when we first are saved . But read Roman's 8 .23 and ask when is the adoption?
    23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
    So ephesians 1 is not about being Gnostically hand picked before we are even born , to be saved later by being zapped awake ( frozen chosen ) . The predestination here is believers after they are saved ( in real time ) are guaranteed future Adoption. But this is not granted to lost uncreated people before they are born in a mysterious secret gnostic unconditional election in the mind of God but a blessing given to those who are alive who believed the truth so as to be saved.
     
    #43 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe in regeneration precedes faith ? which is also calvernism alone .
     
    #44 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever "received" a pat on the back? There's no act of the will involved in that. Received a letter?
     
    #45 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” Ephesians 1:4 (KJV 1900)
     
    #46 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying God has a beginning and end?
     
    #47 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. = Always saved in God without beginning or end. Brought into the experience in time through the new birth and the faith it produces.
     
    #48 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Preeminent
     
    #49 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 14, 2020
  10. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    That's faulty reasoning because salvation is a free gift . A gift is recieved . The atonement is recieved not when Jesus died on the cross . We were all still list when Jesus died on a cross . we were still lost when he was buried and when he resurrected on the third day . So when did you recieve the atonement? After you believed.
     
    #50 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Faith is the access point to the grace. It pleased God ( His choice ) by the foolishness of the preaching to save those ..that were awoken and regenerated first in order they could believe? no ..it is to save those that believe . Believe is the 'condition ' God sovereignly chose to save sinners .
     
    #51 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But only the born again have faith. It's a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
     
    #52 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Blind people receive sight after Jesus opens their eyes.
     
    #53 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Just ask yourself why you think that the word " beginning " in 2 thes 2.13 that may help you see how your reading the bible with certain ke
    They would do , performing a miracle like that is no issue for Jesus .
     
    #54 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    #55 Barry Johnson, Jun 14, 2020
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The new birth is a miracle that opens eyes causing us to believe.
     
    #56 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I have already debunked your misuse of that verse. It does not say faith is a fruit of the Spirit. It says faithfulness is. Not the same thing.
     
    #57 Revmitchell, Jun 14, 2020
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Same thing. Used either way = no debunk as of yet.
     
    #58 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it doesnt. Good grief. You need to stop intentionally misusing that verse
     
    #59 Revmitchell, Jun 14, 2020
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900)
     
    #60 1689Dave, Jun 14, 2020
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