Offer your scriptural rebuttals to the following

[QUOTE="George Antonios, post: 2616563, member: 15115"
What verses and explanation of the verses would you present in opposition to the above points? [/QUOTE]

Act 26:5
since they have known about me for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that I lived as a Pharisee according to the strictest sect of our religion. Here the word translated "known" is the same Greek word translated everywhere else as foreknown or known beforehand. Note the idea is to use information from the past (Paul's childhood) to acknowledge Paul was raised as a Pharisee. This has nothing whatever to do with foreseeing the future.

Romans 8:29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; Note the idea is implementing a plan formulated in the past.

Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? Again, note the idea is treating people in the present according to the promised plan of the past.

1Peter 1:20
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
Again, the redemption plan formulated before creation is being implemented in the present.

2Peter 3:17
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, Here our word is translated so the idea of using knowledge acquired or formulated in the past, during the present (being on guard) is clearly presented.

And here are the other two places the related Greek word appears in scripture:

Acts of the Apostles 2:23
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. Here the implementation of a plan formulated in the past can plainly be seen.

1Peter1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. And once again the redemption plan has us being chosen by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, i.e. the Holy Spirit setting us apart in Christ for the purpose of redemption.

 

A. No, the examination of every biblical use of a specific word is a pretty good base for understanding the meaning of that word in scripture. ONCE that word was used to refer to PEOPLE already knowing some factual knowledge about God. ONCE that word was used to refer to people having a personal experiential knowledge of another person. THREE TIMES that word is used to describe God’s foreknowing or preordaining a person or people. To conclude that scripture uses this word to mean that God knows facts in advance rather than God has a relational Knowledge of people in advance is the weak base for building a theology.

B. God knows everything, but God’s knowledge of facts falls under the theological umbrella of “OMNISCIENT. God’s relational foreknowledge of people is expressed by the word translated “foreknew” in Romans 8:29.

C. Yes He does. God is omniscient. God also “fore loves” people.

[Rom 9:10-13 NASB]
10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived [twins] by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though [the twins] were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to [His] choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."​

 

Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

So we see, by God's own word, that He's made salvation available for everyone.

 

Show some scriptures you think to say this.

 

No. Scripture defining scripture is not “philosophy”.

However, reading meaning into a scriptural word not found in scripture is “eisegesis”; which you have demonstrated for us.

Scripture speaks of God’s προγινώσκω (foreknowledge) of people, not of their choices or their decisions or their actions. (Romans 8:29, Romans 11:2, 1 Peter 1:20). Scripture speaks of people’s προγινώσκω (foreknowledge) of people (Acts 26:5) and information (2 Peter 3:17). To speak of God’s προγινώσκω (foreknowledge) of information is to go beyond what is actually written in scripture (ie. eisegesis).

 

It says no such thing.

Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

• This in no way, shape or form even attempts to prove that anyone and everyone CAN call on the name of the Lord.
• [2Co 4:3-4 NASB] 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
  
• [Mar 4:15 NASB] 15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.
  
• [John 10:26 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

• Ignoring the context changes the meaning. This is an explanation of why Jesus has delayed His second coming ... because God loves US (the Saints) and is waiting for all of all of the Saints to come to repentance.
• There are verses that appear to support your position, but this is not one of them. Try looking in 1 Timothy 2 instead.

 

What does it say that you defend your redefining of the Greek word used in scripture by highlighting a Hebrew word in another passage to prove your point? Eisegesis.

PS. That passage that you quoted does not say that God saves people because he knows in advance that they will accept His offer of grace ... which was the argument being made about “Foreknew” that drew me into this silly non-discussion about the meaning of the actual word in the text.

 

How so?

Now it appears your turn to abandon scripture for human philosophy.
Scripture does not say that WE knew GOD in eternity past, Scripture says that GOD knew US in eternity past. We may not have existed in eternity past, but GOD did. So scripture presents no philosophical impossibility.

 

Yes, he once again confuses omniscience with foreknowledge because he seeks to avoid the biblical usage.

 

Misunderstanding 2 pet3:9 does not change the meaning of it, no matter how many times you misuse it.

 

I don't misunderstand it. It saya what it says.

And hoe about Romans 10:13 or John 3:16? neither one says "whoever, if elect" or "whoever, except..."

Salvation is open to all living people.

 

“For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.” Acts 4:27–28 (NCPB)

Why did God foresee this? Because he planned it to happen. This disproves predestination based on God passively foreseeing what people might do. But instead determining what they will do.