Featured When are we SAVED?

Let's get serious and address scripture. Stop leaning on your crutch of Augustine and Calvin.
My guess is you have never read either person's writings. I have only read a couple quotes.
So, let's seriously address scripture alone. No more falling on your crutch.

 

The underlined is false. Scripture does not ever say that. This is what you do, you dream up false theology. Then you say the scripture says these false things.
MB

 

It clearly states "every man" go ahead and see if you can disprove scripture.
MB

 

Apparently Dave's quote of 2 Thessalonians 3:2 won't help?

2 Thessalonians 3:1-3 Finally, brothers,pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

Dave has admirably addressed your post of Romans 12:3 and has shown you and Barry your err.

 

Despite the fact that we have provided scripture...sigh...

 

Please answer my question. Why are you afraid to answer it, MB?

So, in Romans 12:3, you think "every" means "all humans everywhere." Is that correct? Yes or no will suffice.

Does Romans 12:3 mean "all humans everywhere"? Yes or no?

 

Scripture alone ?? The Bible gives us the one crucial message on how to appropriate Salvation ,' Believing ' and a system comes along in the forth century and says we can't believe the Gospel. The devil is working all the time to blind their minds and calvinists are helping him .

 

Only in your ignorance of what the scripture is talking about. You don't have to convince Barry or me we both know you are Biblically ignorant.
MB

 

No you have to rely on deductive reasoning and Syllogism. Calvinism starts with philosophical questions and finds verses to support it . Once a person starts to view scriptures this way ,there is little chance he can see the bible any other way .

 

Yet another naysayer, but never addressing the scripture that explicitly supports this truth.

We are chosen for salvation through or on the basis of faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. To claim otherwise to make a false claim.

Next, Romans 4:23-24 says (NASB)

Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited,
as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,​

Thus the benefit of our faith being credited as righteousness (Romans 4:23-24) is our election on the basis of faith (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

 

I think you are tending toward a “hyper” view.

Election is made by God in eternity past. Salvation, certain by God’s decree, takes place in time on the basis of the faith response to Gods intervention.

I have heard others take your view to the next step... claiming people are saved in eternity past and therefore they don’t even have to profess faith in Jesus since they are already saved.

I haven’t seen you express that belief, but I want to ask you if you believe it?

peace to you

 

Not in the least.

 

Thanks for making that clear.

peace to you

 

That's where I disagree after much study.

What I see, is that not only does salvation take place in eternity past, but God does not save on the basis of faith...
He saves on the basis of election,
granting the new birth to us as sinful men and we then believe on Him by faith.

Faith is not the basis, but rather the evidence ( Hebrews 11:1 ) of salvation and His work in us by the Spirit.
It is yet another gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ) given to His elect by the Lord, which they then use to do many things.

 

TO START WITH.

 

Syllogism at its finest.

 

Yes, I think I see what you are saying.

Consider this. We know that God and Christ know who are His sheep. Yes, I believe when one is born into this earthly life, they are already either one of God's sheep or not. God knows who they are.

When they, God's sheep, are born into this earthly fallen life, they are 'lost'. Why are they lost? Because they belong to God, but at present are 'lost' to Him being born of Adam with a sinful nature. Thus when they are found, and express faith in Christ, then their salvation begins.

Those who are not of God, not God's sheep, when they are born, they are not 'lost'. Why? Because they never were God's in the first place. To be 'lost' speaks to previous ownership. They never were a possession of God. They are at home in this world.

So, only those who are of God, are the lost sheep. And as you pointed out, Jesus came to save that which was lost. Not that which wasn't lost.

Quantrill

 

Romans 4:23-24 Says nothing about being elect. 2Thess 2"13 . You fali to understand the difference between and being elect and chosen. The elect are always Jews always have been Jews and you have nothing that proves differently. Of course our Lord does choose us after we have believed.
MB

 

Consider my post #(77).

Quantrill

 

We preach to all, telling them to believe and repent as stated in scripture. We know that those whom the Father has given will believe, as stated in the scripture.

Where do you disagree with the above truth?