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What are the minimum theological beliefs to be called Christian?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mikey, Oct 2, 2020.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Please address post #73 and the verses Van claimed. I couldn't care less about Arminianism in this thread. Speak to scripture.
    As to Abram...he had to believe first, which meant that before belief...God had to make Himself known to Abram before Abram could believe. In other words...God had to make Abram alive first.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    SNIP
    I did read them and they support my view. We are saved "through or on the basis of faith." You can deny it till the cows come home. God's will is to credit the faith of those that love God, James 2:5. So salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on the one who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on, this poster of falsehoods, continues to post falsehood. He falsely claims a salvation through or on the basis of faith is a salvation based on merit and not grace.

    This is a straight-up denial of Romans 4:16,
    For this reason it is by [or on the basis of] faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

    Each and every time you see one Calvinist after another copy and paste their "faith is works" bogus argument, remember Romans 4:16. They certainly do not...
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your assertion is not supported by scripture as you have created a merit-based system of salvation.
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Well...I called it. You didn't touch the two verses I addressed where you openly mishandled the word of God.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on this Calvinist posts falsehood after falsehood. No verse says or suggests Abraham was "given faith." None, zip, nada.

    Instead, scripture say the faith was "his faith." Not his God instilled via irresistible grace faith. Calvinism adds to scripture over and over to pour their bogus doctrine into scripture.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "taint so" smokescreed denial of the obvious. This supporting verses are specifically listed.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Look who is addressing the poster and not the position. :)

    Did the Calvinist present a corrupt translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13? You bet. His version of choice turns a noun into a verb to break the link between chose and the basis for choice. Revolting.
    All these verses indicate our salvation is "through faith!"
    Romans 3:22, Romans 3:25, Romans 3:30, Romans 3:31, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 3:12, Ephesians 3:17, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 2:12, and 2 Timothy 3:15. Here is 2 Timothy 3:15
    2Timothy 3:15
    and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
     
    #88 Van, Oct 4, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van, I addressed scripture very clearly.
     
    #89 AustinC, Oct 4, 2020
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, that is a summary. What was the errant translation? What noun was swapped for with what verb? (In the KJV I have seen a verb ,swapped with a noun, governor for governing , Luke 2:2)
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I presented scripture. I didn't just post verse references without context. I went over the context and showed the verses. Galatians 3 proves your assertion is dead wrong. It outright states you are wrong.

    Galatians 3:23-26 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

    Everyone can read this and know that your merit-based doctrine is false.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Take a look at the ESV, NLT and NIV. You will find "to be saved" with saved being a verb. Now look at the Greek text. You will find salvation, a noun. Thus when the verb is inserted, through (en used to show instrumentality) the verse says we are saved through faith in the truth, but in actuality the verse says we are chosen through faith in the truth.
     
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again you ignored 2 Timothy 3:15 which I used prove your assertion is dead wrong.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, and the latter is nevertheless preceded by the "in sanctification of the Spirit" to make that faith in the truth possible. (With John 17:17; Romans 10:17 in mind.)
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Shall we consider the nonsensical claim as to what Galatians 3:26 is saying?

    Here is the Cavinist chosen version, "in Christ Jesus ;you are all sons of God, through faith." Here is the NASB version,
    Galatians 3:26
    For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

    In the Calvinist bogus assertion, the claim is through faith means through Christ Jesus. So Calvinism claims, or at least this Calvinist claims, the idea is In Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through Christ Jesus. Nonsense

    But if through faith actually means "by reason of faith" then we get For you are all sons of God by reason of faith in Christ Jesus.
     
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No, we are chosen by means of being set apart in Christ by reason of faith in the truth.

    John 17:17 and following refers to Christ's prayer for His disciples, that God would in the future (after Christ goes to the Cross) set them apart in Him.

    Yes, our faith in Christ comes from hearing with understanding the call and draw of the gospel. But just because we choose to put faith in Christ does not save us. See soils #2 and #3 in Matthew 13. It is God alone who chooses to credit our faith and love toward Christ as righteousness, or not. Salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on God.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    A common Calvinist error is to swap the subject of Ephesians 2:8, saved, with through faith, in the text the subject being saved, that, gift in "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." While it is true faith can be counted as do to a gift of repentance, in that text faith is not the gift, "are ye saved" is.
     
    #97 37818, Oct 4, 2020
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The choosing still precedes the faith which is a result of God's word, which precedes hearing, and hearing precedes faith. And so the salvation is a condition of faith which God gaves through His word which precedes it (Romans 10:17).
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What does Galatians 3 tell you? It is right there. Before faith...
    I addressed 2 Thessalonians and showed you are wrong. You ignore it and now say 2 Timothy 3:15.
    Let us look:

    2 Timothy 3:10-17 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

    Note: Nowhere in this passage do we see faith coming before God made Timothy His child. Nowhere do we see faith being the merit-based means by which Timothy is considered righteous.

    Van, you are dead wrong. You show the OP an example of a false teacher who claims to be a Christian. (God knows your position before Him. It is based on God's choice, not on your faith.)
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The setting aside on the basis of faith is in the correct order. So by the numbers:
    Faith precedes being chosen.
    Hearing with understand precedes choosing to put our faith and devotion in Christ.
    Choosing to put our faith and devotion in Christ precedes God crediting (or not) our faith as righteousness.
    God crediting our faith as righteousness precedes God setting us apart in Christ.
     
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