What are the minimum theological beliefs to be called Christian?

[AustinC]

I am being a bit dodgy, but I did have some hope you would post in those threads so I could answer you. Your statement says two things to me.

1. To the point you are arguing first. The scripture says,

“Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

What is the logical sequence given? God reveals Himself, which leads to Abraham trusts Him on faith, which leads to God credits Abraham as righteous. Why in this NT passage is there a lack of telling us faith was in fact God's work, not Abraham's? If the whole thing was God working in Abraham, why phrase it this way and not have God take credit immediately? Why tell us about predestination all the way in Romans 9-11 in a section about the true Israel, the children of Abraham? I just find this presentation confusing.

This goes to a broader problem I have with Calvinism, especially in regards to applying it to the OT. Where in the OT does the bible explain to us about eternal election, faith coming from God alone, and so many other points found in TULIP?

Meanwhile, there are texts that show God wants all saved found in the OT all the way through the NT. What of 1 Timothy 2:1-4? Let alone the Books of Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Lamentations?

That said, as I told Dave in another thread, I will say that Calvinism makes better sense of some verses than synergism. Ephesians 1-3, Romans 9-11, some other verses in the NT. That said, as I argued in my three biblical defenses of synergism, it fails to make sense of a whole host of verses. I will not call you 100% wrong, I will not call myself 100% right. That's obvious to me. My position has holes, and if even one scripture is at odds with a position of someone, then it is ultimately in error. I am in error, but I must warn you with sincerity, so are you. I have been for four years, asking, seeking, and knocking, perhaps not wholeheartedly with all my being. For, I am getting closer to understanding things but am not there yet and the Father has the wisdom I seek.

2. Arminianism is not a cult. I infer from your statement that you may even be saying that Christians who are not embracing TULIP may be false for doing so. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Please address post #73 and the verses Van claimed. I couldn't care less about Arminianism in this thread. Speak to scripture.
As to Abram...he had to believe first, which meant that before belief...God had to make Himself known to Abram before Abram could believe. In other words...God had to make Abram alive first.

 

[Van]

Let's read them together, Van:

SNIP
I did read them and they support my view. We are saved "through or on the basis of faith." You can deny it till the cows come home. God's will is to credit the faith of those that love God, James 2:5. So salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on the one who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5.

 

[Van]

I hope everyone who reads your first sentence can see you have a theology based upon merit rather than grace.

On and on, this poster of falsehoods, continues to post falsehood. He falsely claims a salvation through or on the basis of faith is a salvation based on merit and not grace.

This is a straight-up denial of Romans 4:16,
For this reason it is by [or on the basis of] faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Each and every time you see one Calvinist after another copy and paste their "faith is works" bogus argument, remember Romans 4:16. They certainly do not...

 

[AustinC]

SNIP
I did read them and they support my view. We are saved "through or on the basis of faith." You can deny it till the cows come home. God's will is to credit the faith of those that love God, James 2:5. So salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on the one who believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5.

Your assertion is not supported by scripture as you have created a merit-based system of salvation.

 

[AustinC]

On and on, this poster of falsehoods, continues to post falsehood. He falsely claims a salvation through or on the basis of faith is a salvation based on merit and not grace.

This is a straight-up denial of Romans 4:16,
For this reason it is by [or on the basis of] faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Each and every time you see one Calvinist after another copy and paste their "faith is works" bogus argument, remember Romans 4:16. They certainly do not...

Well...I called it. You didn't touch the two verses I addressed where you openly mishandled the word of God.

 

[Van]

Was Abram chosen by God, elected by God before God gave him faith? Yes or no?

No unchosen person has faith and therefore God does not see their faith as righteous and thus save them.

On and on this Calvinist posts falsehood after falsehood. No verse says or suggests Abraham was "given faith." None, zip, nada.

Instead, scripture say the faith was "his faith." Not his God instilled via irresistible grace faith. Calvinism adds to scripture over and over to pour their bogus doctrine into scripture.

 

[Van]

Your assertion is not supported by scripture as you have created a merit-based system of salvation.

Yet another "taint so" smokescreed denial of the obvious. This supporting verses are specifically listed.

 

[Van]

Well...I called it. You didn't touch the two verses I addressed where you openly mishandled the word of God.

Look who is addressing the poster and not the position.

Did the Calvinist present a corrupt translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13? You bet. His version of choice turns a noun into a verb to break the link between chose and the basis for choice. Revolting.
All these verses indicate our salvation is "through faith!"
Romans 3:22, Romans 3:25, Romans 3:30, Romans 3:31, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 3:12, Ephesians 3:17, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 2:12, and 2 Timothy 3:15. Here is 2 Timothy 3:15
2Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another "taint so" smokescreed denial of the obvious. This supporting verses are specifically listed.

Van, I addressed scripture very clearly.

 

[37818]

Look who is addressing the poster and not the position.

Did the Calvinist present a corrupt translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13? You bet. His version of choice turns a noun into a verb to break the link between chose and the basis for choice. Revolting.

Ok, that is a summary. What was the errant translation? What noun was swapped for with what verb? (In the KJV I have seen a verb ,swapped with a noun, governor for governing , Luke 2:2)

 

[AustinC]

Look who is addressing the poster and not the position.

Did the Calvinist present a corrupt translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13? You bet. His version of choice turns a noun into a verb to break the link between chose and the basis for choice. Revolting.

Romans 3:22, Romans 3:25, Romans 3:30, Romans 3:31, Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 3:12, Ephesians 3:17, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 2:12, and 2 Timothy 3:15. Here is 2 Timothy 3:15
2Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I presented scripture. I didn't just post verse references without context. I went over the context and showed the verses. Galatians 3 proves your assertion is dead wrong. It outright states you are wrong.

Galatians 3:23-26 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Everyone can read this and know that your merit-based doctrine is false.

 

[Van]

Ok, that is a summary. What was the errant translation? What noun was swapped for with what verb? (In the KJV I have seen a verb ,swapped with a noun, governor for governing , Luke 2:2)

Take a look at the ESV, NLT and NIV. You will find "to be saved" with saved being a verb. Now look at the Greek text. You will find salvation, a noun. Thus when the verb is inserted, through (en used to show instrumentality) the verse says we are saved through faith in the truth, but in actuality the verse says we are chosen through faith in the truth.

 

[Van]

I presented scripture. I didn't just post verse references without context. I went over the context and showed the verses. Galatians 3 proves your assertion is dead wrong. It outright states you are wrong.

Galatians 3:23-26 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Everyone can read this and know that your merit-based doctrine is false.

Once again you ignored 2 Timothy 3:15 which I used prove your assertion is dead wrong.

 

[37818]

Take a look at the ESV, NLT and NIV. You will find "to be saved" with saved being a verb. Now look at the Greek text. You will find salvation, a noun. Thus when the verb is inserted, through (en used to show instrumentality) the verse says we are saved through faith in the truth, but in actuality the verse says we are chosen through faith in the truth.

Ok, and the latter is nevertheless preceded by the "in sanctification of the Spirit" to make that faith in the truth possible. (With John 17:17; Romans 10:17 in mind.)

 

[Van]

Shall we consider the nonsensical claim as to what Galatians 3:26 is saying?

Here is the Cavinist chosen version, "in Christ Jesus ;you are all sons of God, through faith." Here is the NASB version,
Galatians 3:26
For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

In the Calvinist bogus assertion, the claim is through faith means through Christ Jesus. So Calvinism claims, or at least this Calvinist claims, the idea is In Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through Christ Jesus. Nonsense

But if through faith actually means "by reason of faith" then we get For you are all sons of God by reason of faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Van]

Ok, and the latter is nevertheless preceded by the "in sanctification of the Spirit" to make that faith in the truth possible. (With John 17:17; Romans 10:17 in mind.)

No, we are chosen by means of being set apart in Christ by reason of faith in the truth.

John 17:17 and following refers to Christ's prayer for His disciples, that God would in the future (after Christ goes to the Cross) set them apart in Him.

Yes, our faith in Christ comes from hearing with understanding the call and draw of the gospel. But just because we choose to put faith in Christ does not save us. See soils #2 and #3 in Matthew 13. It is God alone who chooses to credit our faith and love toward Christ as righteousness, or not. Salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on God.

 

[37818]

A common Calvinist error is to swap the subject of Ephesians 2:8, saved, with through faith, in the text the subject being saved, that, gift in "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." While it is true faith can be counted as do to a gift of repentance, in that text faith is not the gift, "are ye saved" is.

 

[37818]

No, we are chosen by means of being set apart in Christ by reason of faith in the truth.

John 17:17 and following refers to Christ's prayer for His disciples, that God would in the future (after Christ goes to the Cross) set them apart in Him.

Yes, our faith in Christ comes from hearing with understanding the call and draw of the gospel. But just because we choose to put faith in Christ does not save us. See soils #2 and #3 in Matthew 13. It is God alone who chooses to credit our faith and love toward Christ as righteousness, or not. Salvation does not depend on the one who wills, Romans 9:16, but on God.

The choosing still precedes the faith which is a result of God's word, which precedes hearing, and hearing precedes faith. And so the salvation is a condition of faith which God gaves through His word which precedes it (Romans 10:17).

 

[AustinC]

Once again you ignored 2 Timothy 3:15 which I used prove your assertion is dead wrong.

What does Galatians 3 tell you? It is right there. Before faith...
I addressed 2 Thessalonians and showed you are wrong. You ignore it and now say 2 Timothy 3:15.
Let us look:

2 Timothy 3:10-17 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note: Nowhere in this passage do we see faith coming before God made Timothy His child. Nowhere do we see faith being the merit-based means by which Timothy is considered righteous.

Van, you are dead wrong. You show the OP an example of a false teacher who claims to be a Christian. (God knows your position before Him. It is based on God's choice, not on your faith.)

 

[Van]

The choosing still precedes the faith which is a result of God's word, which precedes hearing, and hearing precedes faith. And so the salvation is a condition of faith which God gives through His word which precedes it (Romans 10:17).

The setting aside on the basis of faith is in the correct order. So by the numbers:
Faith precedes being chosen.
Hearing with understand precedes choosing to put our faith and devotion in Christ.
Choosing to put our faith and devotion in Christ precedes God crediting (or not) our faith as righteousness.
God crediting our faith as righteousness precedes God setting us apart in Christ.