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Featured Jesus THE Creator - Part 1

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 29, 2020.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that you understand the Bible's teaching of God. Very simply put it is, One God, or Godhead, and Three Persons, Who are EQUALLY YHWH, and therefore cannot be in any way, "inferior" or "superior", to each other. Study what the Name YHWH means in the Hebrew, which Father, Son and Holy Spirit are in the Bible, and then you will understand exactly what their relationship is.
     
    #81 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is by means of human language, translation and logic by which we have concluded that those writings so handed down to us to be a Holy Bible. Deuteronomy 33:27. 1 John 5:9.
     
    #82 37818, Oct 30, 2020
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    here again you err greatly. The Lord used human writers, but what they wrote was what God told them to! There is ZERO human logic, or ideas or anything else, that is in the Holy Bible, which is why it is Infallible and Inerrant and Perfect, because it IS the Word of God!
     
    #83 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Then please tell me what you would expain to someone how to know God. And how to know for sure to have eternal life.
     
    #84 37818, Oct 30, 2020
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    are you asking for yourself, how to become a believer in Jesus? then check out my website for this, The Hope
     
    #85 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Please explain why “any form of subordination within the Godhead” is heretical, but only prior to the incarnation?

    Why does subordination during the incarnation not result in the same problems you are arguing against?

    peace to you
     
    #86 canadyjd, Oct 30, 2020
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    lets see if I can keep this simple and clear. Post Incarnational is when the Second Person of the Godhead, the Lord Jesus Christ, became the God-Man, as the Bible says, "God was manifested in the flesh" (1 Timothy 3:16). It was for this time only, that Jesus was made "lower" even than the angels, because of the suffering of death (Hebrews 2:7-9). Jesus prays to the Father in John chapter 17, that He will be returning, after His Resurrection and Ascension, to the SAME, EQUAL Glory, that He ALWAYS had with the Father, before the world was even created (verse 5). This "Glory" is what Jesus "emptied" Himself of, when He took upon Himself the "nature on humans (apart from sin)" as taught in Philippians 2:5-11, where we also read that He had become "obedient" up to the time of His death. This does not apply to before His Incarnation, but limited to His time on earth.
     
    #87 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for keeping it simple for me. You seem to be saying the 2nd person of the Godhead was not only functionally subordinate, but actually subordinate after the incarnation. Is that correct? Did He become “less God” during the incarnation?

    You seem to be saying there was a time when Jesus the Son was “lesser” and God the Father was greater? Is that correct?

    Once again, why is it heretical to believe any form of subordination prior to incarnation, but not during incarnation....prior to resurrection and ascension?

    peace to you
     
    #88 canadyjd, Oct 30, 2020
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was ONLY "less" than the Father, because He was The Servant, and as such, the Father was for that time, "greater" than Jesus Christ. This is for His earthly work as the God-Man. While Jesus was "subordinate" is His God-Man status, while on earth, to the Father, yet, at the same time He could say as God, that He and the Father are one in power and authority, and therefore, in essense. Jesus at times did things and spoke as God, and other times, as Man. So, as God, He could forgive sins on earth, and command the waves to stop; as Man, He eat and drank, and slept, and "grew in wisdom", etc.

    Prior to the Incarnation, Jesus was not the God-Man, but just God, and within the Godhead, as God, there was no "functional subordination", because as Almighty God, with the Father and Holy Spirit, He IS completely COEQUAL with Them. If there is any "subordination" in the Godhead with the Three Persons, then there cannot be "Equality", as they are God, and there is no God-Man prior to Jesus Birth. Hope this helps.
     
    #89 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, SBG seems to really believe operating subordinately requires the person to be subordinate. I kid you not.
     
    #90 Van, Oct 30, 2020
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    can you then define this for us who don't understand like your great self? :Geek
     
    #91 SavedByGrace, Oct 30, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Does each member having different roles to do make.mean there is subordination then?
     
    #92 Yeshua1, Oct 30, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Because one Member of the Trinity agreed to impose upon Himself limitations of becoming a man!
     
    #93 Yeshua1, Oct 30, 2020
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So am I to understand you actually believe what is handed down is perfectly identical to the autographes with prefect inerrant translation?
     
    #94 37818, Oct 30, 2020
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not the one claiming to read minds.
    When a person chooses to take direction from another Person, out of devotion and love, they are operating subordinately. This does not mean they are not equal in essence, or personhood, or importance. I already provided the example of taking direction from a child out of love and devotion.
     
    #95 Van, Oct 30, 2020
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the discussion, but disagree that Jesus was actually subordinate during the incarnation. I don’t believe He was ever actually “lesser” than any other person within the Godhead, but only functionally so.

    Whether that functionally subordination existed eternally is something I’ll have to study more.

    Again, thanks for a civil and meaningful discussion.

    peace to you
     
    #96 canadyjd, Oct 30, 2020
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are tbe one here making accusations.
    All genuine Christians know God, Romans 8:16, 1 John 5:12.
     
    #97 37818, Oct 30, 2020
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Also, there is the unique situation where Jesus agreed to limit Himself and become a Man, and divest much of his "glory" had with the father, but now has that full glory back!
     
    #98 Yeshua1, Oct 30, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Weigh John 1:1-2. Twice we are told He was with the God, but in that text it was only needed once to say He was God. In Him becoming incarnate, John 1:14, only how He was with God changed, not that He was God. Good to understand. Because God does not change.
     
    #99 37818, Oct 30, 2020
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not the one claiming to read minds.
     
    #100 Van, Oct 30, 2020
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