Acts 2.38 is to Israel not gentiles

[37818]

Christ died for the world not just the elect . . . .

So how do you understand Peter's argument 2 Peter 1:4-10, ". . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ."

 

[Brightfame52]

In other words you claim what you say is true yet you can't prove it. Christ died for the world not just the elect the saved do not need Salvation. Christ didn't come to save the righteous He came to save the lost.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
MB

God the Spirit must lead a person into truth, not me. Again Christ died for His Sheep, jew and Gentile Jn 10:11,15

 

[Dave G]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen...those that believe are the recipients of His act of love.
In other words, "world" = "whosoever believeth in Him" per Acts of the Apostles 2:39, Romans 9:24, Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 and many others.
What about these?

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." ( Psalms 5:5-6 ).

" For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, [whom] the LORD abhorreth." ( Psalms 10:3 ).

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 ).

They say that God actually hates people, don't they?
God cannot both love the world, and hate the sinner, my friend...

1) Either "love" means love and "hate"/ "abhors" means hate,
2) "love" doesn't mean love and / or "hate" / "abhors"" doesn't mean hate,
3) or God loves the righteous ( those in Christ ) and hates / abhors the wicked ( those outside of Christ ).

I believe the last one, as the context of the Psalms make it very clear.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Amen.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Again, Amen.
Also, notice in the entire passage what was declared...

God loving a "world", who He then describes as the "whosoever believeth", and then goes on to tell us that they will have everlasting life.
After that He tells us that He didn't send His Son into the world to condemn the "world", but that the "world" through Him might be saved.
Lastly, He divides the "sheep" from the "goats" by telling us that one part is not ( not "will not be" ) condemned, while the other part is already condemned.


May God bless you with patience and wisdom as you consider these words.

 

[utilyan]

l

Amen...those that believe are the recipients of His act of love.
In other words, "world" = "whosoever believeth in Him" per Acts of the Apostles 2:39, Romans 9:24, Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 and many others.
What about these?

" The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." ( Psalms 5:5-6 ).

" For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, [whom] the LORD abhorreth." ( Psalms 10:3 ).

" The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." ( Psalms 11:5 ).

They say that God actually hates people, don't they?
God cannot both love the world, and hate the sinner, my friend...

1) Either "love" means love and "hate"/ "abhors" means hate,
2) "love" doesn't mean love and / or "hate" / "abhors"" doesn't mean hate,
3) or God loves the righteous ( those in Christ ) and hates / abhors the wicked ( those outside of Christ ).

I believe the last one, as the context of the Psalms make it very clear.

Amen.

Again, Amen.
Also, notice in the entire passage what was declared...

God loving a "world", who He then describes as the "whosoever believeth", and then goes on to tell us that they will have everlasting life.
After that He tells us that He didn't send His Son into the world to condemn the "world", but that the "world" through Him might be saved.
Lastly, He divides the "sheep" from the "goats" by telling us that one part is not ( not "will not be" ) condemned, while the other part is already condemned.


May God bless you with patience and wisdom as you consider these words.

Romans 5

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Colossians 1:21

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Ephesians 2

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


2 Corinthians 9
. 7Each one must do just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

God loves a cheerful giver. Hates givers who are not cheerful. Doesn't necessarily mean a personal hatred but obviously expects us to behave by particular character.

Those who are unbeleivers, enemies, aliens, without Christ. It could be said he hates everyone without Christ. It does not mean he require ILL WILL towards them, the perfect destruction of a unbeliever is that he starts believing and is no longer a unbeliever.

You cannot apply man-centered solutions as God's solutions

 

[Dave G]

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Thank you for your reply, sir.
This is clearly spoken to the believers ( children of God, His elect ) at Rome.

Do you see this as speaking to all men?
If so, then we will have to agree to disagree.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Spoken to the believers at Colosse.

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Spoken to the believers at Ephesus.

. 7Each one must do just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Spoken to the believers at Corinth.

Respectfully, I don't see any of this applying to those who hate God in their hearts.
Only those that He has brought into a relationship with Him and His Son and that He has given the gift of the new birth, to, are included in any of the above verses.
In other words, nothing that is contained in the epistles is intended for those who are not of God.
They wouldn't believe it anyway ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 ).

Please see John 17:2-3, John 1:11-13, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:37-44, John 6:64-65, Romans 5, Romans 8, Romans 9.

 

[Dave G]

God loves a cheerful giver. Hates givers who are not cheerful. Doesn't necessarily mean a personal hatred but obviously expects us to behave by particular character.

I agree.
As His children, God loves it when we cheerfully give.

Those who are unbeleivers, enemies, aliens, without Christ. It could be said he hates everyone without Christ.

I agree.

It does not mean he require ILL WILL towards them, the perfect destruction of a unbeliever is that he starts believing and is no longer a unbeliever.

I'm sorry, but I disagree here.
To me, the perfect destruction of the unbeliever ( the lost, those who will never believe ) is in the Lake of Fire.
In God's word they are known as the wicked.

This is contrasted by those who will someday believe and those who have already believed.
In Scripture they are known as God's elect, or the righteous.

You cannot apply man-centered solutions as God's solutions

I'm actually applying the solution as the Psalms lay things out...
The righteous are those who God has made righteous by the blood of His Son,
and the unrighteous are those that He has not.

Good afternoon to you, sir.

 

[MB]

So how do you understand Peter's argument 2 Peter 1:4-10, ". . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ."

Peter was a Jew, speaking to Jews. He was an apostle to the Jews. Do you believe you are elect and called. Elect to what? and called to what?
MB

 

[37818]

Peter was a Jew, speaking to Jews. He was an apostle to the Jews. Do you believe you are elect and called. Elect to what? and called to what?
MB

How do you understand Ephesians 2:12-18? "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

 

[atpollard]

Thoughts?

Almost everything Jesus said was spoken to Jews ... He was in Jerusalem and Galilee surrounded by Jews. If we follow your logic then NOTHING prior to the NT Letters has anything to do with us (unless we happen to be Messianic Jews). That is not very "Good News".

 

[MB]

How do you understand Ephesians 2:12-18? "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

Gentile Christians do not become Jews although they are included for Salvation. This does not make us elect or Jewish in any way. This passages says we become new men in Christ. Where there is neither Jew or Gentile.
MB

 

[MB]

Almost everything Jesus said was spoken to Jews ... He was in Jerusalem and Galilee surrounded by Jews. If we follow your logic then NOTHING prior to the NT Letters has anything to do with us (unless we happen to be Messianic Jews). That is not very "Good News".

What Christ said has plenty to do with all men. We have been made near to Christ because, of His blood. Not because of election but by the Lord choosing us for a purpose. This purpose is to make Israel Jealous.
MB

 

[37818]

. . . we become new men in Christ. Where there is neither Jew or Gentile.

And Ephesian 1:4? "According as he hath chosen us in him . . . ."

 

[MB]

And Ephesian 1:4? "According as he hath chosen us in him . . . ."

You want more answers? Then answer my post written to you before this one.
MB

 

[utilyan]

I agree.
As His children, God loves it when we cheerfully give.

I agree.

I'm sorry, but I disagree here.
To me, the perfect destruction of the unbeliever ( the lost, those who will never believe ) is in the Lake of Fire.
In God's word they are known as the wicked.

This is contrasted by those who will someday believe and those who have already believed.
In Scripture they are known as God's elect, or the righteous.

I'm actually applying the solution as the Psalms lay things out...
The righteous are those who God has made righteous by the blood of His Son,
and the unrighteous are those that He has not.

Good afternoon to you, sir.

And I showed people who God loved---> WHILE THEY WERE STILL ENEMIES.

Regarding our point of disagreement, If anyone one of us gets a lake of fire Satan call this victory.

Nothing to stop God to STOMP out and throw everyone in lake of fire right now with a wink of his eye. So why the hassle? Why are you not in heaven right now if its just a matter of God automating you to do as he pleases?

The whole reason sending Jesus is that people are to be saved. And Jesus makes an appeal through us BEGGING for everyone to be reconciled.

2 timothy 2
24The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, 25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Difference between being held captive by the devil and having a sworn allegiance to the Devil.

This is why folks are actually "SAVED", because it is a RESCUE not a test or battle.

Romans 12
21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[37818]

Do you believe you are elect and called. Elect to what?

Ephesian 1:4, not being called elect are called chosen.

 

[Dave G]

And I showed people who God loved---> WHILE THEY WERE STILL ENEMIES.

Yes, you did, and I recognize that the people being spoken to, are His elect.
When they were dead in their sins and trespasses, they were God's enemies both in their hearts and in their minds.

Romans 5:1-11. <---- The same people who were enemies in verse 10, are the same people who were justified in verse 1...believers.
Ephesians 2:1-10. <----- The same people who were dead in their sins in verse 5, are the same ones who were saved by grace in verse 8, and who were created in Christ Jesus in verse 10. They are also the very same ones who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world in Ephesians 1:4...believers.

Regarding our point of disagreement, If anyone one of us gets a lake of fire Satan call this victory.

Satan will be there right along with most of humanity.
He doesn't get any victory by deceiving people...

He knows his time is short, so he's going out doing everything he can to mess things up;
But it doesn't matter, as God is the Lord, and Satan ( Lucifer ) is but one of His creations with limited power.

God wins, no matter what Satan "accomplishes".

Nothing to stop God to STOMP out and throw everyone in lake of fire right now with a wink of his eye. So why the hassle? Why are you not in heaven right now if its just a matter of God automating you to do as he pleases?

I agree.

There's nothing to stop God, right now, from throwing everyone into the Lake of Fire...
Except for His purposes and promises.

As for Him "automating" people, I have no idea where you get that conclusion from.
God saving someone apart from their will ( Ephesians 1 ), does not make anyone a robot.
He simply bypasses man's wishes and does as He chooses ( Psalms 115:3, Daniel 4:35 );


But He always does so in perfect righteousness.

 

[Dave G]

The whole reason sending Jesus is that people are to be saved.

I agree.

And Jesus makes an appeal through us BEGGING for everyone to be reconciled.

I disagree.
Look carefully at who He is speaking to through Paul...
2 Corinthians 5:17-21.

Hint:
It's not unbelievers.

Difference between being held captive by the devil and having a sworn allegiance to the Devil.

The Bible says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ( 1 Samuel 15:23 ).
Therefore, anyone who rebels against God, in their hearts and minds, is considered the very same by the Lord as someone who willingly engages in partnership with the devil.

That is why unbelievers are called "the children of the devil".
Jesus was speaking the truth, literally, when He told the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they would do.

The same spirit that worked in them is the same spirit that works in all the children of disobedience ( Ephesians 2:2 ).

This is why folks are actually "SAVED", because it is a RESCUE not a test or battle.

I agree to an extent.
Not only does salvation entail a rescue for His sheep, it also involves trials of faith and battles with the world, the flesh and the devil ( Ephesians 6:10-18 ).
It is a test, and it is a battle.
Right to the end of their lives.

But they fight it, because they have hope...
Hope and a knowledge that they will someday be with Christ their Saviour and faith that He will deliver them out of all their trials ( Psalms 34:19 ) in this life.

 

[utilyan]

I agree.

I disagree.
Look carefully at who He is speaking to through Paul...
2 Corinthians 5:17-21.

Hint:
It's not unbelievers.

The Bible says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft ( 1 Samuel 15:23 ).
Therefore, anyone who rebels against God, in their hearts and minds, is considered the very same by the Lord as someone who willingly engages in partnership with the devil.

That is why unbelievers are called "the children of the devil".
Jesus was speaking the truth, literally, when He told the Pharisees that they were of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they would do.

The same spirit that worked in them is the same spirit that works in all the children of disobedience ( Ephesians 2:2 ).

I agree to an extent.
Not only does salvation entail a rescue for His sheep, it also involves trials of faith and battles with the world, the flesh and the devil ( Ephesians 6:10-18 ).
It is a test, and it is a battle.
Right to the end of their lives.

But they fight it, because they have hope...
Hope and a knowledge that they will someday be with Christ their Saviour and faith that He will deliver them out of all their trials ( Psalms 34:19 ) in this life.

You don't send Ambassadors to your own country.

Romans 5

10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Plainly obvious it was his enemies not his sheep. NON BELIEVERS.

Believers don't need repentance nor require reconciliation.

Romans 5
15But the gracious gift is not like the offense. For if by the offense of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many.

^How much more did grace overflow to the many? If you are consistent the response should be IT NEVER CAME CLOSE

That the OFFENSE affected more so than the GRACE! The offense universally implicated everyone.


17For if by the offense of the one, death reigned through the one, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

It didn't.

18So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind.

I understand this statement. Just as the statements before lead to it.

You would have us believe Just the opposite the condemnation of "ALL" means "ALL" MORE PEOPLE, universally all when it comes to condemnation. And in the exact same verse to pull double take Justification's "all" doesn't mean "all".


Tell us just how much MORE did the grace overflow to the Many compared to the offense......... It is being insisted that it didn't at all.

 

[atpollard]

What Christ said has plenty to do with all men. We have been made near to Christ because, of His blood. Not because of election but by the Lord choosing us for a purpose. This purpose is to make Israel Jealous.
MB

Not if Barry Johnson is correct that Jesus came only to save the sheep of Israel ... because that is who he was speaking to and about. (Barry’s claim in the OP ... not my claim.)

 

[atpollard]

Believers don't need repentance

Incorrect. (see 1 John 1:5-10, 1 John 2:1-2)