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God given unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC, May 21, 2021.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are a confused little man (or woman).

    I am not talking about the US Constitution or the DOI (they define these "rights" in their own context.

    I am saying your liberalism and idea of human entitlement is unbiblical.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I believe God has commanded us (born anew believers) to spread the gospel to the whole of humanity. Can we say God desires all people to be saved? Thus should we not consider the right to have an opportunity for salvation has been bestowed upon humanity. For example God loves humanity in this way, He gave His uniquely divine Son so that everyone believing into Him would not perish but have eternal life.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, we can say God desires all not only to hear the gospel but to be saved.

    That said, no, I do not believe salvation a human entitlement (I believe it is unmerited grace - God loving people when they have no entitlement to that love).
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Right, I said the opportunity for salvation, not the right to salvation.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not know that man is entitled to the opportunity for salvation either.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line is whether our country's DOI is based in truth or a lie. John 8:44, Revelation 12:9.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not talking the basis of the DOI.

    I am asking if we are entitled to life? Scripture seems to indicate life is not an entitlement but a gift or blessing from God.
     
  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    If to kill a man is to kill one made in the image of God, and is therefore strongly forbidden, how does that not entitle a man to life? At the least it is saying a man is entitled not to be murdered.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It prohibits killing. It does not give men life as an entitlement.

    Prohibiting cursing does not give another person the right not to be cursed at.

    A prohibition is not the granting of rights.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone without exception who is alive is given this gift of life. So none is entitled to one's life? If not, that is not rational.
     
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Everyone is given this gift...as a gift...not an entitlement.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The gift causes life to be an entitlement. Furthermore one cannot have a gift without having it as one's property, hence the right to a property must precede a gift. Or a gift is never really owned.
     
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Entitled by whom? God desires all men be saved, thus He would have all humanity hear the gospel. I suppose you could say God is not entitled to desire all men be saved by hearing and accepting fully the gospel. No need for evangelism because the lost need not be given the same opportunity we had. Got it...
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We are not entitled. So entitled by no entity. We are given life. A gift is not an unalienable right. We have been given life, to which we are not entitled, by God and in His image therefore man has no right to take it. Got it?
     
  15. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I disagree. The constitutional prohibition of compelling an accused person to be a witness against himself does entitle that person to silence, as is stated in those rights that must be read to a suspect.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Not even close. Are you claiming that our God given right to life is not a right because we had nothing to do with its bestowal?
    We do not have a right to life, so its ok to murder, or enslave, or abuse? I am sorry but my understanding of scripture differs fundamentally.

    God desires all men be saved, thus He would have all humanity hear the gospel. I suppose you could say God is not entitled to desire all men be saved by hearing and accepting fully the gospel. No need for evangelism because the lost need not be given the same opportunity we had.

    You cannot hear the gospel if you have been murdered.
    You cannot hear the gospel if such information has been banned, thus our liberty to exercise our beliefs is a fundamental right, from God's viewpoint.
    You cannot pursue happiness in the afterlife if government (say Iran) did not allow Christian teaching in public.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not sure what that provision has to do with God given inalienable rights. I agree we have entitlements and rights under the Constitution.
     
  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is not my claim at all - re-read my post.

    My claim is that men do not have an entitlement given by God for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Instead I believe that these are gift from God that are not unalienable (that God is not violating our entitlements if He takes our life, or commands that we submit our pursuit to happiness to His will. I truly believe that the wages of sin are death and that men are not entitled to salvation (God did not save men to protect men's entitlements).
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You are turning our inalienable rights into entitlements.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Not me.

    Entitlement- the fact of having a right to something.
     
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