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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AustinC, May 9, 2021.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So, just cut to the chase, you dont believe Faith in regards to Salvation is the Gift of God. Is that correct ?
     
    #101 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    God gives Faith in Salvation, its not of ourselves either according to Eph 2:8 !
     
    #102 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe God gives a person Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation and that person not use it and remain in unbelief ?
     
    #103 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
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  4. ivdavid

    ivdavid Active Member

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    Unless you're asking for proof-texts, I'd say Matt 23:37 conveys it.

    The argument could be made that faith is required of man as per the law of faith just as righteousness was required of man as per the law of works - God Himself fulfills both in His elect as per His promise. But that's not to say man cannot believe of himself if for a while (Luk 8:13) , right? So I see the non-elect capable of believing too consequent to God changing their heart while the elect alone persevere in a faith authored and gifted by God.
     
    #104 ivdavid, May 30, 2021
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  5. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    #105 ad finitum, May 30, 2021
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    1 Peter 1:2, ". . . according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: . . ."
    2 Thessalonians 2:13, ". . . from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit . . ."

    Now "fruit." Romans 6:22, ". . . ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. . . ." John 6:47, ". . .He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." Fruit into what one already has been given.
    Galatians 5:22-23, ". . . the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: . . ."
    Ephesians 5:9, ". . . the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; . . ."
    John 17:17, ". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." (Romans 10:17 faith from hearing).
     
    #106 37818, May 30, 2021
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    The person is saved by grace.
    Given faith to exercise and believe they are saved and are being sanctified. They are given works that God prepared for them to do, which require active faith. But, a person may not be faithful to do the work. They may stay in fear and hide that which God has given them.
    Grace saves. Faith works through believing God has been gracious and desires us to love him with all our heart, our soul and mind as well as love our neighbor as ourselves.
    A person may be hindered by fear and sin so that they do not act in faith. We say "yes" to the Father's request, but then don't do it. Or we say no, but the prompting of the Spirit moves us to eventually go and do the work that requires the faith God has gifted us.
     
    #107 AustinC, May 30, 2021
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The "that" refers to the "gift" which is the "are . . . saved." The "through faith" is not the subject of "that."
    ". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ."
     
    #108 37818, May 30, 2021
  9. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Im asking what verse states that !
     
    #109 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    #110 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    So with that said, can a person whom God gives faith remain in unbelief ?
     
    #111 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
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  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Faith is out of Grace. So do you believe Faith is a gift of grace in Salvation or it originates in the natural man ?
     
    #112 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
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  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Then tell us why grace cones through Faith and not the other way around.Did Paul lie to us? Is the Bible wrong and you have the only right there is? Scripture is as plain as the nose on your face

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    These two little verse put Calvinism in the ground on which comes first
    MB
     
    #113 MB, May 30, 2021
  14. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    Yes.
     
    #114 ad finitum, May 30, 2021
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  15. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    ok, you dead wrong
     
    #115 Brightfame52, May 30, 2021
  16. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    Who says faith with regard to Salvation is a gift? Nowhere in the Bible, that's for sure.
     
    #116 ad finitum, May 30, 2021
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Full unbelief? No. Prodigal life, yes, yet they will return to the Father because Jesus tells us that he keeps all whom the Father gives him.
     
    #117 AustinC, May 30, 2021
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is by grace. Paul states it twice. We know God has graciously saved because God gives us the faith to believe what God has already done.

    No prerequisites required.
     
    #118 AustinC, May 30, 2021
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  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we are saved by grace through faith. Itis only logical grace comes through faith because the Bible says so.
    MB
     
    #119 MB, May 30, 2021
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    He didn't keep Judas did He
    MB
     
    #120 MB, May 30, 2021
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