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Faith

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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
ad finitum said:
I don't ask Jesus questions but instead listen to what He says. Jesus asked questions of the Pharisees and in so doing put them to silence. Your not answering any of my questions yourself is the same as your silence.
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So, just cut to the chase, you dont believe Faith in regards to Salvation is the Gift of God. Is that correct ?
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Salvation is completely from God, ". . . that not of yourselves . . . ." Ephesians 2:8. And God gives it ". . . through faith . . . ." Unless God gives it, no amount of faith matters.
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God gives Faith in Salvation, its not of ourselves either according to Eph 2:8 !
 
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ivdavid

Active Member
Brightfame52 said:
Where does it say Christ laments the lack of faith?
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Unless you're asking for proof-texts, I'd say Matt 23:37 conveys it.

Brightfame52 said:
you dont believe Faith in regards to Salvation is the Gift of God. Is that correct ?
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The argument could be made that faith is required of man as per the law of faith just as righteousness was required of man as per the law of works - God Himself fulfills both in His elect as per His promise. But that's not to say man cannot believe of himself if for a while (Luk 8:13) , right? So I see the non-elect capable of believing too consequent to God changing their heart while the elect alone persevere in a faith authored and gifted by God.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
ivdavid said:
Why do you see God sanctifying us as the first step? We are finally saved unto eternal life through sanctification - where does it say in Scriptures that the whole process of redemption begins with sanctification though? In fact, Rom 6:22 places sanctification after one's being set free from sin and becoming a servant of God.
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1 Peter 1:2, ". . . according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: . . ."
2 Thessalonians 2:13, ". . . from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit . . ."

Now "fruit." Romans 6:22, ". . . ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. . . ." John 6:47, ". . .He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." Fruit into what one already has been given.
Galatians 5:22-23, ". . . the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: . . ."
Ephesians 5:9, ". . . the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; . . ."
John 17:17, ". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." (Romans 10:17 faith from hearing).
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Do you believe God gives a person Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation and that person not use it and remain in unbelief ?
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The person is saved by grace.
Given faith to exercise and believe they are saved and are being sanctified. They are given works that God prepared for them to do, which require active faith. But, a person may not be faithful to do the work. They may stay in fear and hide that which God has given them.
Grace saves. Faith works through believing God has been gracious and desires us to love him with all our heart, our soul and mind as well as love our neighbor as ourselves.
A person may be hindered by fear and sin so that they do not act in faith. We say "yes" to the Father's request, but then don't do it. Or we say no, but the prompting of the Spirit moves us to eventually go and do the work that requires the faith God has gifted us.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
God gives Faith in Salvation, its not of ourselves either according to Eph 2:8 !
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The "that" refers to the "gift" which is the "are . . . saved." The "through faith" is not the subject of "that."
". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ."
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
ivdavid said:
Unless you're asking for proof-texts, I'd say Matt 23:37 conveys it.


The argument could be made that faith is required of man as per the law of faith just as righteousness was required of man as per the law of works - God Himself fulfills both in His elect as per His promise. But that's not to say man cannot believe of himself if for a while (Luk 8:13) , right? So I see the non-elect capable of believing too consequent to God changing their heart while the elect alone persevere in a faith authored and gifted by God.
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Im asking what verse states that !
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
The person is saved by grace.
Given faith to exercise and believe they are saved and are being sanctified. They are given works that God prepared for them to do, which require active faith. But, a person may not be faithful to do the work. They may stay in fear and hide that which God has given them.
Grace saves. Faith works through believing God has been gracious and desires us to love him with all our heart, our soul and mind as well as love our neighbor as ourselves.
A person may be hindered by fear and sin so that they do not act in faith. We say "yes" to the Father's request, but then don't do it. Or we say no, but the prompting of the Spirit moves us to eventually go and do the work that requires the faith God has gifted us.
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So with that said, can a person whom God gives faith remain in unbelief ?
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
The "that" refers to the "gift" which is the "are . . . saved." The "through faith" is not the subject of "that."
". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ."
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Faith is out of Grace. So do you believe Faith is a gift of grace in Salvation or it originates in the natural man ?
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
@MB wrote:
"Faith has to be in man before grace can come to the man."

What do others say?

I say that MB negates grace in his own sentence when he claims that a human "must" have something before God "can" extend grace.
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Then tell us why grace cones through Faith and not the other way around.Did Paul lie to us? Is the Bible wrong and you have the only right there is? Scripture is as plain as the nose on your face

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

These two little verse put Calvinism in the ground on which comes first
MB
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Then tell us why grace cones through Faith and not the other way around.Did Paul lie to us? Is the Bible wrong and you have the only right there is? Scripture is as plain as the nose on your face

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

These two little verse put Calvinism in the ground on which comes first
MB
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Salvation is by grace. Paul states it twice. We know God has graciously saved because God gives us the faith to believe what God has already done.

No prerequisites required.
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Salvation is by grace. Paul states it twice. We know God has graciously saved because God gives us the faith to believe what God has already done.

No prerequisites required.
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I agree that we are saved by grace through faith. Itis only logical grace comes through faith because the Bible says so.
MB
 
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